OK... I’ve been around the block a few times, but there’s not much that ticks me off more than when OUR "suppliers" are more than willing to sell directly to OUR customers (potential customers) for the same price as they sell to us!

Don’t get me wrong. I understand that if it’s a BIG order and the end user somehow locates them, business is business... they shouldn’t have to turn the business away.

BUT DAMMIT. DON’T SELL TO MR/MS. LAW FIRM AT THE SAME PRICE AS YOU’RE SELLING TO MR/MS INTERIORSCAPER. THAT’S JUST NOT ETHICAL!

YES, I’M SHOUTING!

I chatted yesterday with a very good interiorscape buddy of mine who happens to be a very formidable, credible and local competitor... He was PISSED!

Seems that an existing client of his called him to add some "panel planters" to their space and he specified TOPsiders as many of us would. Client balked at the price (as they often do about all prices) and decided to search online. Lo and behold, their search returned a website (which shall remain unnamed for now) that offered all of their planters INCLUDING "panel planters" online to ANYONE at the same wholesale prices as they do to their resale customers!

Client called him and said... "I can get the planter’s you quoted me on online at half your price at (blankety blank website)!"

Turns out that one of our industry suppliers has a very nice and customer friendly website that they would probably say is aimed at US, however it appears that anyone can order online with a credit card and have the product shipped directly to them with FREE shipping no less! Nice.

I’M NOT LIKING THIS ONE BIT!

YEAH... I’M SHOUTING AGAIN!

IF OUR SUPPLIERS ARE GOING TO OFFER THEIR PRODUCT TO END USER’S THEY NEED TO SET UP DIFFERENT PRICE STRUCTURES FOR THEM.

RETAIL WOULD BE GOOD!

Nothing wrong with selling to whomever one wants to, but one can’t have ones cake and eat it too!

If one is going to sell online, then sell at LIST price to end users and discounted prices to re-sellers.


Steve

PS... I’d like to clarify that the vendor was not TOPsiders but rather a competitor!

Steve:

Firstly I agree with you however I really do not believe that you should withhold the name of the supplier. If you want them to change then embarrass them to hell and let the industry know who they are. Believe me, if they want the continued business from this industry they will change fast, or the industry will boycott them right out of business.
If we do not know who they are then the unsuspecting interiorscaper will continue to use them as a source.

Just my opinion.

Rick

I second Rick’s opinion.

Rick, Debbie, I’d like to see how some other ’scapers feel about this. Then perhaps....

Steve,
It is hard enough being a small co. when the big guys get discounts you don’t.
I agree with Debbie and Rick. Let us know the name of the co. If I knew my wholesalers would sell to my customers at the same price they sell to me I don’t think I would do business with them.
Barb

I’m with the majority on this. Let us know whom is undercutting our business, so we can avoid supporting our "enemy."
Carl

I’ll "tell later", but really, it’s not that difficult to figure out with a little "research" ;)

I’d like to see some thoughts on this from other ’scapers and from the Vendor side... so I’ll wait it out a bit longer.

Steve

All the industry sites I go to are password protected to ensure that only trade is purchasing their product. Any company that calls itself wholesale but posts it’s prices to the general public and will sell to them is not a wholesale site. I would srongly suggest that you publish the vendors name. This industry should only support companies that support us!

It’s Newpro guys. Why beat around the bush.

www.newprocontainers.com

The point of business is to make money.

Another company that has been causing some trouble has a fairly new product( a German company with product names like Quadro, Classico... do you know who I mean?), we know them as the new fun container that all our clients are in love with, well you just have to go to their website and ANYONE can order them... this can be a problem for us, but what about the suppliers that they are undercutting?

I think if you read down the page and on some of the products it says that they don’t sell retail. I personally like the convenience of ordering at any hour of the day on the website, and I never have to worry about finding my catalog.

I sell my service, and the fact is that the internet can’t keep your plants alive. I have never had a customer undercut me from buying on any website. I think this website has been up for a couple of years now. Steve, is this the first time it’s happened to you? I wouldn’t worry too much about a one time occurrence.

Yes, the point of business is to make money.

That said ... I’m not buying retail ....... meaning if a vendor sells at one price to ALL ..... they are not my vendor. If they are truly a wholesale vendor who wants to sell their product, they need to have wholesale pricing and retail pricing. Anything less makes them a retail vendor.

I’m very interested how this particular vendor reacts to this dilemma. If all of a sudden they lower prices for wholesale ..... wouldn’t you feel ripped off in your previous purchases ? But creating a higher price for previous retail customers ..... aren’t they going to be upset ? It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Will there be an apology with their epiphany ? Hmmmmm ....

Been on the road all day folks so just catching up now.

Frank is correct indeed. Thanks Frank for not "beating around the bush" :)

Mike, um... what was your point now? Please elaborate!

Amanda, the other company that you are referring to is Lechuza and I was not aware that they were selling their container’s online at just barely above the wholesale price availabe to us (re-sellers) from their US distributor’s. Thanks for bringing this to my/our attention! I think it’s just as enethical as the other company... what was their name now...I forgot. Oh perhaps it’s just a mental block!

Amye. You can’t be serious! No, of course it’s not the first time it’s happened to me. It actually didn’t happen to me, it happened to a friend of mine.

The point is that it’s bad enough when our suppliers COMPETE with us by selling at LIST prices to our customers, but it’s VERY UNETHICAL when they sell to our customers at wholesale prices. How are we supposed to compete with THAT!

We all sell our service and yes that’s the backbone of most of our companies’ revenue, but come on, we sell plants and container’s too... and that’s a big chunk of revenue for most of our companies. Wish I was in the same city as you, we’d love to provide all the plants and containers for your customers and then you could just focus on service ;)

Alrighty then. I think I’ve ranted enough.

Good weekend to all. (We almost all:)

Newprocontainers.com does not sell retail to anyone, as stated on the website. For questions feel free to call my personal cell phone anytime (317)-294-3803

Since when does a law firm rate as a retail container seller ?

As far as calling your personal number ..... let’s keep everything out in the open and public .... shall we ?

It’s interesting that Jeremy says they don’t sell retail. All of the wholesale prices are listed and all you have to do is enter a credit card and bingo you are a wholesaler!

Just took a look at their site.
How long has this been posted there?

"WHOLESALE TRADE ONLY, NEWPRO DOES NOT SELL RETAIL! CALL 888-845-8912 FOR A DEALER OR INTERIORSCAPER NEAR YOU."

"Newprocontainers.com does not sell retail to anyone..."

Jeremy, I don’t know how involved you are in the business as a "Former Newpro Supervisor" but I’ll tell you that your above statement is a misconception!

The whole reason that I refrained from mentioning the company name when I posted my initial "rant" was because I wanted to verify that what you are saying is indeed the case.

It does state on the bottom of the website in BIG letters WHOLESALE ONLY blah, blah, blah. I’m not sure when that was added, but I know the disclaimer at the TOP was added after my original post! Nonetheless, it’s irrelevant whether the disclaimer is/was there or not if the shopping cart is open to anyone at wholesale prices!

I was able to purchase two 6" nylon trash bags for $10.25 each (clearly a wholesale price) plus shipping using Google Checkout with my American Express card early Friday morning. At no time was I required to verify my reseller status or even enter a company name. Just my Google username and password in order to use Google checkout.

I have to say that the experience was quite pleasant and the site functioned very well. As I mentioned, that was at 6:47 last morning. Minutes later I received the following email:


"Hello steve,

Thanks for buying from Newpro Corp. using Google Checkout! Newpro Corp. will charge and ship your order soon."
**********************************************************

A few hours later at 9:51am I received the following "great news" in this email:


"Hello steve,

Great news! Your order has shipped, and should arrive soon. Your credit card has successfully been charged for this order.

Order Details - Aug 17, 2007 06:47 GMT-04:00"
******************************************************


Very good customer service I must say! Just to the wrong customer! Barring any unforseen circumstances or Almighty Intervention, I should be receiving my trash bags early next week. I’ll keep you posted :)

The solution to this is very simple. If a website is targeted to reseller’s, it should be password protected so that only qualified and registered resellers have access to the pricing information OR if it’s going to offer easy purchasing in such a seamless and customer friendly manner as newprocontainers.com does (good job on that btw) and be on the internet for the world to see, then the pricing posted should be retail list!

Even if the site somehow was able to determine reseller status prior to ordering, I still don’t want my customers knowing what my wholesale cost is. Know what I mean?

This really isn’t rocket science!

Thanks for your call’s btw. I did receive your voicemail and will give you a call on Monday. As it is I’m breaching my "family agreement" by posting here on Saturday morning.

Enjoy the weekend.

Steve

Guys, I’ve got some news for you...direct e-commerce of previously "to the trade" items to all manner of end-users has been the norm for a few years now. Everything from site furnishings to janitorial supplies to you-name-it...and why not? Is the "interiorscape industry" a powerful enough purchasing force to merit dealer protection by manufacturers and large distributors? If you owned a container manufacturing business and a large commercial real estate management company approached you about buying all of its interior plant containers from you direct (i.e., "cutting out the middleman"), would you turn that business away and wait for the six or ten local interiorscapers who might be trying to get that company’s business to close their sales and buy from you piecemeal?

I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here for a reason...interiorscapers should be selling a SERVICE that includes design, specification, sourcing, installation and maintenance of live plants, decorative containers, seasonal and rotational blooming plant displays, exterior container plantings, etc. as a packaged program of complete horticultural services. We deal in some commodities like plants and pots as an integral part of that package, but when all is said and done, we should be aiming at being the provider of a turnkey package of elements that comprise a complete, professional program.

To that end, one way of "encouraging" prospective clients to buy the Whole Package is to decline to become involved in situations where the client outsources pieces of the puzzle to other vendors (as in the case where a client may purchase their own containers direct, as they would purchase ash-and-trash and other site furnishings, from a manufacturer or large distributor of such furnishings) and comes to you looking for plants to fill them. Make it clear that they may save a few bucks by trying to purchase each portion of the package separately from different vendors, but they will then have to look elsewhere for professional horticultural services. This is where leasing makes the most sense: if you sell only leases, clients must go to you as the single source, since you own all of the merchandise and provide the services as well.

I know, I know...another interiorscaper will be happy to oblige them and take whatever crumbs are left over. So it would behoove us to begin to develop a more professional, industry-standard approach to how WE as interiorscapers behave with respect to the way we conduct business in our industry. If it were a common practice to insist on being the comprehensive goods-and-services source vendor for all things interiorscape, this would no longer be an issue. The difficulty arises when there are a lot of unprofessional "man-with-van-and-watering-can" outfits out there willing to cast aside smart business practices that focus on the long-term viability of the industry in favor of short-term profits (or what they think are profits but is really just short-term subsistence cash flow).

I seem to recall that, when NewPro (a very good, customer-service-oriented vendor, BTW) first introduced their website, there was prominent mention that there would be some sort of trade-only feature on the site that would offer wholesale pricing to interiorscapers and such, while the "retail" e-commerce part of the site would sell at higher price points. What happened between then and now is open to speculation, but the company must have decided that there was an opportunity to tap into a market niche that was wide open and ready to fork over its dollars via direct internet sales, so it went ahead and followed that trail.

You always have other choices of vendors to deal with, although in our little industry, they are not as plentiful as in many others. So if it bugs you that NewPro sells direct online to anyone with the cash to buy, then do business with TOPSiders, or ChemSupply, or Primescape or the dozens of small, local distributors in the "lawn and landscape" vending biz that populate the countryside. Just don’t complain when you can’t find a specific item elsewhere for the price you want to pay. It’s a jungle out there.

Clem

Well some businesses will try to make money any way possible and that’s there business motto regardless of a mission statement or other.

If they are only focusing on sales or wholesaling for the lowest price possible I don’t see how they can last, they have to be making money(profit) somewhere if not then they either go out of business or have to raise there prices then they become another market rate/fair competitor.

In the long run how much will it cost a business to under charge for a product so it can get that sale?

Look at what’s happening to companies moving overseas to "save" money,as well as companies that are in the U.S. (not to badmouth anyone but) Mattels latest recall cost 30 mill., Walmart has to pay back 34 mill. in back pay and they may owe as much as 78 mill.

So... yes it’s unethical but how long can they go on before it costs them more than it’s worth.

Clem, you are spot on about the obvious, but not about what this whole posting is originally about. Steve is taking issue that ANYONE (ex. my mom, dad, or neighbor down the street) can purchase NewPro’s items at the same wholesale prices that any re-seller can. Now, I don’t have a problem with your senario where if I was the wholesaler/manufacturer and "a large commercial real estate management company approached you about buying all of its interior plant containers from you direct". That management company probably has the means (EIN, tax-id, tax exemption, reseller #, etc.) to make that kind of purchase, and yes, cut out the middleman, which is us. If they want to do that, more power to them. The problem is that ANYONE can purchase at wholesale prices from this website without having to have any legal documentation that designates them as a re-seller with the right to purchase TAX FREE. I don’t know about you, but I had to fill out legal documents and pay good money to the state to get a special number (EIN) which allows me to purchase items TAX FREE which in turn allows me to purchase at wholesale prices from various vendors.

I for one don’t use NewPro’s products in my designing of interiorscapes. I only last week purchased two hanging bowls (which I RARELY suggest) from them, as they had everything (hardware to hang them) I needed and the shipping was included. Since reading this post, I WILL NO LONGER USE NEWPRO AS A VENDOR, PERIOD. Why should I? If they are going to be just another WalMart and sell their items at wholesale/low prices to ANYONE WHO WANTS THEM (my mom included), then I’m not interested. I am no longer unique in what I have to offer. Besides, anyone who wants their company to portray quality and style will not offer straight-sided, cheap plastic containers!

So, let this be a lesson to any vendors or manufacturers of products that we as interiorscapers/nurserymen purchase. If you want to sell your products to the general public, DO SO AT RETAIL, and make the wholesale part of your website secure (re-sellers must use their account number and not jsut a username and password, and have it linked in some way to their credit account). Please be fair and ethical! Don’t piss us off!!

Thanks you, and good night!

John,

I agree with you in spirit, and I am disappointed that a vendor would offer its products to the public at the same price that it sells to the trade, especially if it presents itself as a "wholesale to the trade only" vendor. Perhaps someone from NewPro will come on here and clarify why that is (or isn’t, as the case may be).

I disagree with you about your point that you won’t offer "straight-sided, cheap plastic containers" because you want your company "to portray quality and style". That’s a very elitist attitude and implies that small offices with very limited budgets should give up on the idea of having plants in affordable (for them) decorative containers. One might argue that the ubiquitous rectangular panel-mount partition planter box is not the most stylish thing in the world, but it is invaluable as a tool for inserting live plants within the limited space of the open plan office; otherwise, floor and table space limitations might totally exclude plants from most work areas, relegating them to large private offices, conference rooms (maybe) and reception areas and denying employees the benefits of live plants in the workplace THAT OUR INDUSTRY SO LOUDLY TRUMPETS!!!

You’re p-o’ed, so I’ll chalk your rant up to that and not to ignorance of the marketing of price points to the end user. General Motors would no sooner sell only Cadillacs than it would sell only Chevy Cobalts. Product mix is essential to targeting multiple price points within your potential markets. Unless you’ve decided on a strictly high-end, exclusive niche, it’s silly to think you can operate a successful interiorscape business without offering different levels of quality and style to suit each sales prospect.

Clem

I think we need to hear from them and see what their position is on this.As for my company, will will not use any supplier that will sell direct for the same price as we pay... PERIOD.

PS. as it pertains to the "panel planters"..I always use the one I feel has the best look and finish.Thanks Aunt "B"........

I’ve been involved in a similar thread on a Professional Gardener message board about nurseries giving discounts to "contractors". It’s been interesting to see how the policies vary - some will give a discount to anyone claiming to be a contractor, some require merely a business card, others require more substantial documentation and/or licenses.

There was also some discussion about WHY the nursery gives a discount to professionals. Is it because they need a lot less help since presumably they know how to choose and find the plants they need (although some of them obviously DON’T know this!)? Or is it because they buy in quantity, and if so, should the nursery offer the same quantity discount pricing structure to their retail customers?

Interesting food for thought. Comments?

Sheila

Sheila, as a reseller of a product we are actually non salaried and non comissioned sales people for the company we are selling product for.We are boots on the ground who can reccommend a product based on its quality or value or both.We see the customer face to face and are ambassadors for the product.We rebuy the same product over and over. What do we get for doing all the leg work if a customer can simply get online and purchase the product direct? Ever try to buy a car direct from Detroit? Of course not. Could Detroit sell direct? Sure they could.Its the face to face sales that keep customers coming back to a product. Don’t think so? What about say a Mary Kay product? Mary Kay could easily sell every product they have online. Customer loyalty that has a face is a much stronger one.Surely its not too much to ask for some sort of price protection for our efforts.

Jerry, well said!

Sheila

Monday morning....I’m back :)

Mike, thanks for elaborating, but I think you missed the point of my original post. Noone’s talking about selling product for the lowest possible price here! The point of the post is about selling product for the same price to everyone. Both one’s customers and one’s customers potential customers. The wholesale florist doesn’t sell to Janes flower shop for the same price as it does to Mrs. Smith who just happened to pop in to buy 4 boxes of roses for her next dinner party. If it does, then it’s undermining its florist customers. Now if they decide to sell "wholesale to all" then that’s a different story and it’s fine (in a sense) if they are open about it. Jane would just take her business elsewhere.

Clem, John of course is correct about my point. I think I even mentioned in my OP that business is business and no container supplier in their right mind would turn down an order from a large property management company for hundreds of containers. I would hope though that they perhaps wouldn’t sell to them at the same price as they sell to us for. I realize that you’re playing "devil’s advocate", but you know what the original point of my post was :)

Sheila, you raise an interesting point with the garden center example. I don’t see anything wrong with what the nursery is doing as long as they are up-front with it. They are offering a trade discount to resellers whom presumably will bring them greater volumes of business than their individual retail customers. Our company offers "trade discounts" to design professionals who use/refer our product and service to their clients. Once *their* client becomes *our* client, we still protect our design client on future installations for the end client because they continue to direct business our way.

It’s about Ethics.

Steve

I have been away for a few days and was SO looking forward to seeing their response.

I guess no answer IS an answer. Too bad they took that approach.

Lordy Lordy.... For all of you "old timers" out there ( and I mean old timers)that remember outspoken Bunny Smith and Foliage Systems, Inc. in New Orleans,La., yes, I am still around after 30 years plus and am proud of all of my faithful employees who endured much and suffered greatly as a result of Katrina in our city.Thirty years of growth and 30 minutes to nullify.... your customer base is destroyed. You 30 interiorscapers who seem to have a beef with New Pro, need to rechannel your energy!!!!
Although I agree wholeheartedly with you folks who seem to have endless time to network via computer rather than look for new customers and more ways to MAKE MONEY,you ALL have lost sight of the most important issue here. New Pro delivers a quality and reasonable product to all of us... on time... everytime. They have NEVER fallen short on the customer service side, and if you all are consumed with the meager "profit" they might make on selling 3 gallons of Pokon to a garden center or ceiling clips to a vendor in Canada, I suggest that you try going thru the mental processes of rebuilding your values for your companies
and remember who has surrounded us all with quality products, good service, innovative ideas, eagerness to contribute to our industry,excellent pricing etc. etc. I’m sticking with those that have ALWAYS been there for me!!!! Bless you George....... Bunny Charbonnet Smith

Bunny,Sounds like you wouldn’t mind if all your suppliers sold to your customers direct and you were simply farming out your labor.And instead of insulting all here about "the mental processes of rebuilding your values" [of which you know nothing about any of us] try focus on ethics and not " MORE MONEY" which is the problem we are addressing here.

Dear Jerry.... Milton Friedman,( I think) once said " a true cynic is one that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing...". Why the witch hunt for a long time supporter of our industry?

Bunny,Even the "Fuller Brush" salesmen of old knew and respected the idea and value of territory.It seems today that some have little or no respect for such a concept.At this point I [and I speak for myself only] am on no witch hunt and said in a previous post that we should wait to hear their position. However,so far the silence is very loud and I for one am still waiting to hear if there is indeed an explanation.As for the quote you posted, perhaps it could be looked at from both ends,the value of a repeat customer in the trade vs. the low price to a non trade customer.Have you ever seen a coyote smile?

Hi Bunny, welcome to the board. I don’t think I’ve seen you here before.

I thought that this thread had gone the way of the dinosaur, but since it’s back and since I’m the one who started it I feel compelled to defend my position.

First, *my* values are just fine, thank you very much! You can ask anyone who knows me personally.

I take exception to your referring to this as a "witch hunt"!

A friend of mine had an issue with this and brought it to my attention. I posted my OPINION (I think we’re still allowed to do that in America) based upon the facts in a very respectful manner and at no time was it my intent set out on a "witch hunt" for a "longtime supporter of our industry"

In fact, I know really nothing about the company mentioned, other than the fact that I know they have been around for years. I don’t know how much they have supported the industry over the years and the first time I have done business with them (as I stated earlier) was last week when I placed my order through their website. I even mentioned that I thought that their site functioned very well and was quite intuitive (you might have read that, or you might not have) and certainly the follow through was very efficient as I received my product on Tuesday.

This has NOTHING about them making a "meager profit". It’s about a website on the internet being available to anyone with a computer and an internet connection selling at wholesale prices to anyone that happens upon the site. I wish them all the profits in the world and much continued success in their business. Noone’s questioning their ability to "deliver a quality and reasonable product"

I just don’t agree with the strategy that they have taken regarding the website. I’ve subsequently spoken with Jeremy (former supervisor) and I do have a better understanding of what they are attempting to do with the website, and he explained that they do in fact "qualify" customers prior to shipping/accepting orders.

I’m still of the opinion that the site should either be password protected OR the posted prices should be retail prices, later discounted to qualified resellers upon verification of their reseller status.

Certainly, you’re entitled to you opinion, just as the rest of us are and *They* are too. There’s no witch hunt going on here.

Just an exchange of opinion.

Steve

Touche, Steve...... very well stated and I couldnt agree more. Thanks for walking me thru the internet process... your password ideas are most valid and I anxiously await a response from vendor in question. Thanks for your intuitive input. bunny smith

Hello interiorscapers,

My daughter is a recent Purdue graduate in Nursing. She has taken a new career in Nursing in Hollywood CA. Therefore I have been preoccupied with helping her to relocate across the country, which by the way is something that saddens me greatly. I had always hoped my daughter would stay in state.

Let me see if I can answer the concerns of the Business Ethics issue which seems to have created a firestorm of opinion.

Newpro’s website has prices posted for very important reasons, but not for the reasons that you may think. First, NewPro sales outside of our industry is less than .002 percent of the sales of NewPro. There is not some attempt on the part of NewPro to sell around our market on the Internet. We do however sell internationally, with foreign language barriers, time zone differences, and foreign companies would not know that we exist without the Internet presence. The website platform we use is a platform used by over 4000 companies nationwide. It is a generic platform (template) with code owned by the platform developer. The company will not let us into the esoteric code to change the way it functions. When we set out to design our website with search engine capabilities, we were quoted prices from $50000 to $100000. This was unaffordable to have a custom made site to fit our needs with effective search engine optimization. Therefore we settled on this affordable platform with characteristics which are designed more for retail like companies. We have sought a registering type revision, however the platform developer will not change this feature for us. Secondly, listed prices are very important in the organic ranking with Google. A website 3 to 100 pages down is not a very effective website. Without listed prices, our ranking would plummet. We are currently looking for solutions without losing our Google ranking. This is not a quick-fix because of the thousands of dollars required to create effective websites. If anyone would like to talk to me personally, I can be reached at NewPro at 1 800 869-9285. If I am not available when you call, then leave your ph# and I will personally return your call. We welcome your concerns, opinions, and the debate. It keeps us on our toes.

George, good to hear from you on this touchy subject.

I guess NewPro is in the middle, as it were...too small to foot the bill for a completely custom B2B e-commerce site, but with aspirations of growth that demand better than "just okay" in terms of web presence. I think many of us know that feeling with respect to the many aspects of running a small-to-midsize company, so I sympathize with you and the spot you’re in.

That being said, I’m sure there must be a way for you to "dualize" your site...many online vendors of similar size to NewPro can and do have a "duplex" structure on their e-commerce sites. Visitors have the option of looking at the "retail" portion of the site, with its retail price points, or, if registered/qualified, of visiting the trade-only portion of the site, with its wholesale pricing shown only to legit resellers.

Make some noise with your platform developer about this. It may cost a little more initially to retrofit the site, but it will serve you as an investment in a long future of good business relationships with the interiorscape community and other legitimate trade resellers. Please know that I give this advice in the spirit of a longtime happy customer of yours.

Clem

Clem,
I have done just what you have suggested months ago. We are aggressively looking for an affordable solution.

We are not interested in listing retail prices because we really don’t want retail sales. Retail sales at our margins does not make good business sense. We ran an analysis on Wednesday to tally the sales outside of our industry. The first time we ran the analysis it came up as 0% which we knew was impossible, because some of our employees including myself have sold to friends and family. We ran the analysis a second time pushing the decimal point to .000. That’s how we came up with .002%

George

George,its a short way to the coast and back when you have such a good reason to fly out there!

So if I understand, the reason you post prices is for your international sales via the internet.You said that .002 percent of sales is outside our industry and I was curious to know what percent is international?

Could you post pricing in such a way that you had room for "preferred pricing" to the trade after you qualified them?

This doesn’t directly relate, but NewPro had my new company build a website, www.containerguide.com, so that scapers had a place to send customers to view products online without any information leading back to NewPro, prices, etc.

Mr. Dearringer:

I think you are missing the whole point here. The original post was about an Interiorscaper that had a customer that was interested in purchasing over 400 planters. Your handy website allowed the customer to purchase the planters at wholesale price and at the same time slit the throat of the interiorscape vendor that was working with the same customer. We are not all upset over you selling Aunt Mary 1-12" planter at a reduced price. We are upset that you are slitting our throats with your wholesale pricing that is available to vertually all of our commercial customers. It is wrong!

Frank A. Hornstein

Frank.......Very well stated!!!
Rick

Frank,

If you will read the thread again no one ever said the law firm purchased the containers direct. I spoke with Steve Foster on the phone and he informed me that the Interiorscaper ended up matching the price and purchased the rectangles from NewPro.

Frank and Rick,
Both of you are under the assumption that there was a large sale of planters to some company that went around an interiorscaper. I’m telling you that this never happened. I repeat, no such sale occured from NewPro. We don’t even have an interiorscaper that purchased near this many rectangles any time during the year. The original story of some legal firm buying containers directly from NewPro over the internet is not true!
George

Jerry,
I hope Jeremy will read your comments and answer to you. We can either post a price or not post a price on this platform. These are our choices. Listing of the price is a very important aspect for ranking near the front page of Google. If we don’t post prices the ranking will cause the ranking to fall below the third page on Google. We received one international order last week in excess of $12000. Would you pass up these kind of sales?
George

Jerry,
The .002% is the percent of sales to companies outside of interiorscapers, florists, retail centers, and property managers, and other distributors. Our international business falls within the above group.
George

Jeremy:

You still don’t get it. So the interiorscaper sold the planters at the wholesale prices that you have listed on your website and made NOTHING on them. You made your profit. So it still comes down to screw the interiorscaper.

Frank

Frank,
Why are you selling interiorscapers short? If we follow your logic, then interiorscapers are at the mercy of any company that will sell around them, including container vendors or plant growers. Why doesn’t the end user go to the big box store and buy containers and plants off the shelf? Why don’t they maintain the plants in the bank or law firm with their own employees? The answers to the these questions are obvious. The interiorscaper provides a very important service to the customer. Design, installation and horticultural abilities are as important as the plants and containers themselves. If I had a legal firm tell me that they could buy the plants cheaper on line, then I would set about to explain why they need my expertise to handle the plant project for them. Buying, installing, and taking care of your own plants would make about as much sense as writing your own business contract without professional help. Too many costly bad things could go wrong! Should the interiorscaper get a markup on the containers? Of course you should make a markup, and the interiorscaper can and should defend the markup. George

Geez...so much for leaving work at the Office!

I’d like to clarify some things here:

1) Frank and Rick, there was no mention of 400 planter’s in my original post. Not sure where/how you got the impression that I had stated that! I do agree with you however that our supplier’s selling to end users at the same price as they sell to us for is wrong.

2) Jeremy is correct. He and I did speak at length last Monday and although I still don’t agree at all with the *workings* of the website and the fact that it lists wholesale pricing, I have a much better understanding of the situation and am hopeful that they will come up with a solution. As Jeremy mentioned, "The Interiorscaper" DID make the decision to sell the planters to his client at his cost from NewPro in the spirit of good client relations although he wasn’t happy about it. I don’t recall how many planters the order was for, but certainly only a few, perhaps five or so, and "the Interiorscaper" placed the order, not his client, although she could/would have. Whether or not they would have shipped to her is unknown. According to what we have read here earlier in the thread, the order would have been flagged.

3) George, there’s no "original story" of some legal firm buying planters directly from NewPro over the internet and although you may not have meant it, it’s IMPLIED by your saying that the story is "not true" that the story is fictitious! That’s not the case, the story is true as I told it originally and as reiterated in 2 above.

4) George, I don’t proclaim to nearly as proficient at search engine optimization (SEO) as Jeremy is as it’s his profession, but I do know a thing or two about SEO. Our own website is very highly optimized for the search engine’s, Google primarily, and we’ve never paid a cent to them for a sponsored link, nor do we post our prices on the website.

5) George...again. I don’t think I’d expect you to turn down a $12,000 order, but I so hope that that order was to a qualified reseller (international or not) and NOT to an end user who just happened upon your website because of it’s excellent search engine optimization.

6) Frank, yes you’re correct. the interiorscaper sold the planters at cost and has a VERY happy client. He however wasn’t very happy about how it all played out, but was thankful that it was a tiny order and not a HUGE one, but it could have been and frankly (no pun intended:) I’m not convinced that had it been a HUGE order it wouldn’t have shipped, regardless of whom placed it. I just wish it would have shipped at LIST price and not wholesale.

That’s how this whole thing started, and around it goes!

Gotta get back to my life now.

Steve

George,

With all due respect. "Defending our profession" is what we as Professional Interiorscapers do day in and day out!

We keep hammering it home to end user’s that we are the experts at specifying, installing and maintaining live plants and containers in their spaces. We keep hammering it home that there is a difference between the plants/containers they can get at the Big Box and the plants/containers that they can get from us!

We keep trying to sell quality and service and professionalism, because we all know that there’s another guy/gal right around the corner that will do/sell it for less!

We can’t compete with our suppliers and our suppliers can’t have it both ways.

It’s really quite simple!

I don’t understan’t what you guys aren’t understanding about this, but I’m done with it.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Steve

Steve,
I’m sitting here feeling pretty foolish right now. Aren’t we supposed to be doing something other than talking business on Saturday night? I think I must be a dork or something. I won’t call you a dork for fear of starting something I can’t finish. I’m going to go have a beer.
Goodnight.
George

Price is important on an eCommerce website for SEO for the following reasons...

Google tracks over 100 metrics to rank websites. A few of those metrics include depth of visit, length of visit and bounce rate.

Most online shoppers will bounce (hit the back button from the home page) on an eCommerce website that does not immediately display prices. Even if a good portion of the visitors would click past the homepage, they statistically wouldn’t stay as long or dig as many pages deep. Google tracks these three statistics using Google Analytics, the Google Toolbar and other proprietary methods.

It took OVER THREE YEARS for most interiorscapers to realize that NewPro includes shipping in prices of plant containers. NewPro’s target market is interiorscapers so the website prices are targeted towards that group. If we displayed ’retail’ prices on the website a good portion of scapers would BOUNCE and consider NewPro OVERPRICED. Few people read fine print, and as demonstrated on this very thread many people don’t read very carefully. If it took three years for people to realize we don’t charge for shipping, then we must assume those same people wouldn’t read enough to know that the displayed prices were retail and not wholesale trade prices.

I could go on for days about this topic, but please understand that many, many hours and days were spent discussing the best way to utilize newprocontainers.com over the past two years. I’m sure George is still open to new ideas, but this has been thought out, analyzed, adjusted, thought about some more, argued about, tested, thought about some more, argued about some more, tested again, etc.

Jeremy:
I still don’t understand why you don’t have a "For The Trade" link that is password protected where you could post your wholesale price lists. You would still have prices posted (retail and wholesale) which you say is so important. Thousands of distributors sell this way on the Internet. I have done business with many who post prices to the trade in this manner. Some even post the required password in their trade magazine, which is not read by the general public. Others require you to email the company to be qualified for the link to the trade only prices. This is such an easy way to solve this problem.
Rick

This may be seem a sidebar at first glance, but I think it brings up an important sales concept for interiorscapers. Too often, we are asked to provide an itemized price quotation for plants, containers, installation and maintenance by a prospective client. I think that this is where we go astray and unwittingly buy into the commodities provider trap instead of being a turnkey provider.

If a prospect wants to buy fifty plants and containers, we should be quoting the price for the complete job, landed and installed, with all of our costs and markups for the pieces and their delivery and installation included in one package price. The only itemized price should be the monthly maintenance figure. That will help to discourage prospects from splitting up the plants, pots and services and shopping them as parts instead of a finished product package.

Clem

Rick,

You won’t find any of those companies you just mentioned at the top of SE rankings for cometitive keywords or phrases. What can I search for to find your website?

I think one thing has been overlooked on this thread. Even if the client does not purchase the product from a wholesaler, I am uncomfortable a client having access to my cost of materials. I don’t think that I should ever be put in the position of having to justify my margins to a client. If they want to be sure that receiving the best possible price then let them tender the job. As I indicated before I would never purchase product from a supplier who’s web-site shows wholesale prices or isn’t password protected. If the cost of password protection is cost prohibitive, have the purchaser prequalify as a legitimate purchaser and e-mail for prices.

George, with all due respect you are not making good sense. If you are targeting interiorscapers as your primary customer and they seem to be very upset with your practice of pricing wholesale on the internet then why aren’t you listening to them rather than defending the practice? And its curious you say you don’t want retail sales but you attract retail buyers more by advertising wholesale prices.If its only ,002 % of your business then who are you worried about alienating,the retail customer? If it were me I would be listening to my target market here and not worry about the other.

And Jeremy, you are missing the point.We have many suppliers of all kinds that list pricing on the web. They just structure the pricing to protect to people trying to make it worthwhile to resell their product. Its very simple to do if there is a "will" to do it.

Judging by the number of posts on this subject I would have to say it is a real hot button issue for a lot of scapers. It might be prudent for some suppliers to take a hard look at their marketing and decide if they can afford to lose this segment.

Jeremy:
You are placing such emphasis on coming up on the first page of a Google search. Why if you are not looking for retail sales.
You asked what you could search for on our web site. Probably nothing. We have a web site for the trade and to send interiorscapers to when they ask.
If you are not looking for retail sales then why is this the lead that comes up on a Google search for plant containers..."NewPro Corp distributes plant containers, garden planters, flower pots and planter supplies at wholesale prices. Order securely in our On-line store" This certainly indicates a one price for all, which certainly doesn’t sit very well with the very market that you are trying to attract...interiorscapers.
Rick W.

It’s so simple but there are 2 people that just don’t get it. George and Jeremy. Go figure.

Frank Hornstein

Don’t forget Lechuza in your witchhunt-thye follow the same practice.

joe, Lechuza pricing on their website is not whosesale pricing .

a 17" classico is 74.95 plus shipping

I know we have beat this subject to death but I just had to prove a point.

On 8/17 Jeremy posted "Newprocontainers.com does not sell retail to anyone, as stated on the website. For questions feel free to call my personal cell phone anytime (317)-294-3803".

So I told my assistant that if she could order anything she wanted from Newpro.com on her home computer with her personal credit card that I would pay for it. She ordered a lovely Lechuza planter. I will write her a check as soon as I finish posting this. Frank

Frank:
Jeremy did not make an incorrect statement... "NewProContainers.com does not sell retail to anyone". He should have (could have) also correctly and perhaps more appropriately said, "Newprocontainers.com sells wholesale to everyone".
Rick

I stand corrected Rick.

hellow!
I am not writing about the business ethics sorry.I have great designed of pots for the plants and flowers its very different.If you could help me with my Ida maybe your sales will go up this comming holiday.I am looking for some one to help me with marketing the Ida.
I could order 1,000 of the same pots from manufactured but how do I sale all that in one town. I have got many more different designeds on my mine yet it is so hard get it star. I do not want to give up on Ida! I hope some one would contect me and at list take look see the pots.perhaps maybe you know some one? thank you very much for your time.

from Las Vegas Leah from korea.

I knew it was inevitable. I’m in the same boat as you were, Steve. I just lost all of the pot sale part of an installation because the client found the New Pro website and bought them wholesale. They even had the nerve to ask me what sizes that they should buy. I gave them the grow pot sizes and told them to talk to the people at the website to figure out the sizes that they would need. Guess I was not as helpful as you were. I feel your pain...

Julie

That can’t be possible Julie!

You mean some "lay-person" actually got on the internet and searched for plant containers and ended up at that site and then bought their own containers direct at wholesale prices with free shipping.

I just can’t believe that happened!

No it couldn’t. They only ship to pre-qualified resellers. We’ve been assured of that.

You must be dreamin’

I feel yer pain

I just can not believe it!!! Especially after I got a blistering email from Jeremy last month telling me to drop the subject, and that indeed they did not sell to the public at their wholesale prices posted on their Web Site. What spin will they put on this now? I can’t wait.

Solution:

Start spec’ing Topsiders and other manufacturer’s products????????

Just got a call from George Dearringer from NewPro, following up on my posting.

Let’s start by saying that he wants to do the right thing. Calling me and NOT giving me attitude was a great start.

For those of you who aren’t aware, many times the profit margins on containers are so slim that they depend on volume business for success. NewPro started with our industry in the right way...supporting us at trade shows, buying sponsorships and advertising in our trade magazines. They did all of the right things to build our business and trust. Starting up almost always incurs losses unless you are independently wealthy, so I am sure that the business plan allowed for that. The issue is how long can you sustain that investment before you decide to cut your losses and get out? George and his company wanted to respond to our industry’s concerns about a publicly accessible web wholesale price list, so, for a period, he pulled it. Sales dropped by 30% at that time. Obviously, few companies can absorb that kind of loss longterm. If I understood him correctly, it’s back online and the directive is to sort out all inappropriate buyers. What a challenge! We plantscapers sometimes have company names that can be hard to ascertain as to just what we do. He gave me an example of an insurance company who buys from him. I’m fairly certain that they have an inhouse fulltime plantscaper employed...maybe multiple ones. I’m not sure. Now, does that company qualify for wholesale or not? He’s got a tough call to make.

As far as standing by me, he checked his orders. Even though my client told me that she had ordered the mats and pots already, in fact, he said that she had only ordered the mats so far. Her boss is out sick, so I suspect that she is waiting until he gets back to officially approve it before she makes the "big" investment. She has a deadline of Oct. 19 (a little over a week away), so it won’t be long until we know for sure. Her company name is all capital letters, so it would be hard to verify if it was or wasn’t a plantscaper. Now that I gave him the company name, George has agreed to alert his staff to watch for it and to refuse to sell the pots to them. Of course, in return, I have agreed to give him the sale, assuming that my client reverses her decision and orders from me.

George has a tough decision to make, but we all make them in our businesses daily. Who hasn’t asked themselves whether they should sell an installation to someone as a "loss leader", just for the exposure? On my part, I appreciated the effort that George made. Time will tell if the client accidently gets her sale through or not. I will let you know what happens.

Julie A. Blymire
Interior Green, Inc.

I guess one way of heading off this kind of problem is to give your supplier a heads-up when you are in the process of spec-ing the job...tell them the name of the prospective client, and what sorts of items and quantities you’ll be quoting. That way, it will be crystal clear to the supplier when the prospect tries an end-around (note the timely football reference), and they can politely decline to sell directly to the end-user, citing their policy of protecting their trade customers. The client should understand, but if not, tough. There are many businesses that sell only to legitimate trade customers and not the general public or individual end-users on the commercial level. Why should our industry be any different?

Plus, the supplier would not suffer from this policy, since larger end-users who have not contacted interiorscapers for pricing, specs, etc. and are purely working on their own due to their size, in-house capabilities or whatever would still be fair game for dealing directly with the supplier, costing it no sales in that regard.

It’s a little more bookkeeping and policing by the supplier, but should result in happier relationships all around.

Clem

I don’t know if it’s wise to help a competitor, but I feel compelled to comment. My business makes purchases from Grainer.com regularly, and lately we’ve placed orders online. You can see all wholesale prices on the website, and virtually anyone can make their first purchase with a credit card online. After that point the customer must validate themselves through an approval process. (this is easy to do and any savvy person could get around the system) I’m sure that Grainger has paid for a very extensive, expensive custom website that I’m not sure our industry could pay for, but I thought it might be a good direction to explore.

I also think Clem has the right idea. Dealers, Suppliers and everyone need to find creative ways to work with new technologies. I’m sure there will be obstacles none of us have thought of around the corner.

Correction... the website is www.Grainger.com

Julie, correct me if I"m wrong but didn’t George say that he posted the prices to help his overseas and outside our industry sales and they were only .002% of his business? So his sales dropped 30% of what, total month over month sales or 30% of the .002%? If its 30% of total sales then are other factors involed? I would think so.Its only been since the middle of August when this was first talked about.

George, would you mind posting here and explain your pricing policy and your position to "everyone"? I for one would like a little transparency here.

Gee guys, the solution to this issue seems pretty obvious. Find another supplier who is willing to comply with your needs. I’m sure that NewPro, like any company who sees a marked drop in their business, will figure out an economical way to protect his business. Vote with your chequebook and you will see results.

Would that life were that simple, Randy. NewPro is a high quality supplier that provides an attractive line of products at competitive prices with some innovative ideas, such as landed pricing, great customer service and prompt shipping, many times the same day. I wish that were true of every one of their competitors, but it’s not.

Better is for us ’scapers to use this "bully pulpit" to give the supplier a chance to explain to our satisfaction (or not) what is going on. I for one have had a great deal of difficulty wading through the points being made by both sides in this debate up to now. It would behoove George to flatly and clearly state the company’s policy right now and clear this up. If his answer is still not to our satisfaction, we’ll vote with our feet.

About the Grainger reference in another post, Grainger will sell to just about any business...they are NOT "wholesale"...the items it sells are mainly for USE by businesses and contractors and not for resale at a markup. In New Jersey, at least, contractors are not supposed to mark up parts used in their jobs (i.e., they are expected to pass along their own COST of the items to the customer, and bill for the installation/service separately, which is where they are to make their profit). Most of what Grainger sells are consumables or tools, and any legit business is entitled to purchase from them. Sometimes their prices are pretty low on certain items, but many times they charge the same or MORE than a retail big box store for the same item (hardly "wholesale" in terms of discount, either).

Let’s air this out once and for all. We may find that some of us will prefer not to do business with a particular supplier due to some real or perceived slight or offense...remember the flap over Primescape Products and Rentokil that aired here a few years ago? But let’s get the simple facts first and give George one more opportunity to explain, clarify or whatever.

Clem

Hi Julie,

I think it’s great that George clled you to smooth things over, but I *really* think that the situation you have been placed in with your client will only become more complicated!

You’re now in the position of your client being told that the vendor now refuses to sell the planters to them direct, but will gladly sell them to you so that you can re-sell them to the client? At what price... wholesale? If so why?

Sorry, but none of this is making sense and if I were your client I wouldn’t feel particularly good about entering into this relationship.

I suspect you’re not too happy with the situation either, and it will certainly be interesting to see how it pans out.

Please keep us updated.

Steve

PS...I would suspect that most container/supplier vendors have similar margins so I can’t see how that can be an issue and as Jerry mentioned, a 30% dip in a tiny percentage of sales in an eight week period shouldn’t be that frightening.

I hate being so vocal on this topic again, but it just doesn’t add up.

The simple solution is to put retail pricing on the site and then qualify re-sellers either by phone or having them (us) register with them in advance. (Yeah, I know, I’m sounding like a broken old vinyl record!)

Wholesale business have been doing this for as long as the Nile. I just can’t pick up the phone and call Paleck and say "Hi, this is Steve with Steve’s plants. I’d like to place an order for 20 of you Item #000456" unless I had established an account with them!

Know what they’s say? "Who the heck is Steve’s Plants?"

Although it is still a work in progress, here’s the status on this sale.

Newpro caught the pot order from my client and refused to process it, once I told them the company name. They emailed them (and blindcopied me) a note saying that, as their website says, they only sell to the wholesale trade. They also made it a point to say that there is a plantscaper in the area that they recommend to the client (me, of course).

I have not heard a word from my client about it yet. I am sure that they are trying to figure out how to get around it or how NOT to eat crow and come back to me. I have not admitted to her that the pot line she is buying is the product that I bid. When she asked me to tell her what sizes she needed, I told her that different manufacturers have different size openings and tapers on the pot, so I couldn’t be sure if what she had would match my specs. Of course, I was happy to tell her that the growers’ pot sizes were on her proposal and that her vendor could help her decide what the best fit would be. Of course, that showed her that part of my pricing involved my experience choosing sizes.

I still seem to have a good relationship with this client but, yes, Steve, she was arguing with my office manager, who took the order because I was out of the office, that she thought my mark-up was too high. I REALLY don’t want to get into a discussion over this with her. What she does not know is that I have already assumed that the pots will not be here in time for her deadline and that I will be graciously supplying her with temporary pots for her deadline. I am not planning to charge her an extra line item for it, but you know that that weighed into my decision when I chose my markup...at a minimum, the labor to do so with an account that is 45 minutes away. There is tall 17" material involved, so 2 people will be required to install the job.

Perhaps I am naive, but isn’t it true that as long as you have a resale number, that anyone can buy pretty much buy anything? It is up to the vendor to sort through who they think is appropriate to sell to and who isn’t. Usually, as long as I have a resale number and pay with a credit card, most companies will take my order, as long as I meet the minimums. They usually only ask for references when you want to set up a credit/charge account with them. Based on that, unless the vendor has a sixth sense or radar (as Barb Helfman and her staff seem to), how do they know if you qualify as a bonafide seller? My client’s site is a manufacturing facility with a regional office there. Their company name is all initials. Why couldn’t they use their manufacturing resale number to qualify? How does any potential new vendor for me know if I’ve decided to carry their product as a new line in my repetoire? Recently I’ve decided to offer some organic-looking metal sculptures to my customers. How does the vendor know that they are not for my personal use? I think Clem’s suggestion for calling the vendor and telling them the client’s name in advance is about as realistic as any.

Seven days and counting until installation day...

Julie

Yep, like I was afraid, my client expects me to order them for her and "sell" them to her at the cost she saw. I emailed her back "Do you really expect me to sell these to you at cost?" Now I have to decide I’m going to do.

Julie

Julie,

You can use the line I always use which usually has them backing up. I got it from Sopranos.

"This is a business, this is not a hobby, this is how I feed my children."

Be that blunt. And tell her she has no idea the expenses your business has and what you pay for insurance, workers comp, or what it takes for you to stay in business and offer the quality service that you do. How dare she expect you to work for less ...... are her clients allowed to beat her up about pricing ? Be that blunt. Right now she is not seeing you as a business, she is looking at a dollar figure.

Julie:
Her is a thought. Sell them at cost, or just a tiny mark-up and then tell NewPro that they own you an additional discount to make up the profit that you lost.
Rick

Hmmmmmmmmmm. This doesn’t seem like a very reasonable Client Julie. Surely she wouldn’t expect to sell her product or service at cost and certainly she shouldn’t expect you to do so!

Unless this is a "make you or break you" project, I’d personally just send the client a very nice email pointing out that you are in business to make a profit and to make a positive difference in the lives of your Team and Clients and you couldn’t possibly enter into a Client relationship that would achieve none of those goals.

Therefore, you respectfully decline to enter into this relationship.

The only winners in the current scenario would be the container supplier and the client, and chances are this client will be a thorn in your side from here to eternity.

Pity that this seems to be taking this route though :(

Steve

Julie.I hate to say it but I think you are "dead meat" with this client. The client will expect you to sell at the price she already knows or she will find someone else that will! On top of that the irritation factor this client already has with you will not fade soon.You are correct that anyone with a resale # can buy just about anything thay want direct and they EXPECT to pay the lowest possible price.You will not win this one me thinks.

About all you can do at this point with this client is say "thank you" to your supplier.

Question for George.........Do your competitors post wholesale pricing? If not then why do you? If yes then please let us know about that too.

The verdict is in or my pot pricing dilemna. They are buying the pots from me.

We were going back and forth through emails and I did not like the tone that by client was starting to take. I picked up the phone, we discussed it and I offered a small discount on the pots only. I had mentally decided that that was the only compromise that I would make. If that hadn’t worked, I was going to walk away from the whole deal. I will still be getting the same profit that I would have initially because I estimated high on the freight and the price for NewPro includes freight. By buying them from George, I am at the same place that I wanted to be financially.

My only suggestion to George would be to post suggested retail prices on the part of his website that is accessible to the public. That would solve the problem. I really don’t want to have to deal with this issue again.

Julie A. Blymire
Interior Green, Inc.

Julie has a very good idea there...many container suppliers’ catalogs show a list price, and then offer trade discounts off of that list price. That would solve a host of problems and make everyone a lot happier.

Clem

That is a vey good way handle pricing.Might even solve the problem of low margins as well.Certainly someone pays list.Might as well be the one time buyer thats doing the "end run".

Looks like you guys have a great proposed solution.

George, where are you?

WOW!!!!!!!So sorry for Julie and Steve’s misfortune......WOW!!! What a mess NewPro has created for all of their existing clients by printing the wholesale price on their website! I like Julie’s idea of the retail prices on the website or the idea of having a password to gain access to retail pricing.
Having read all the responses, what was George/NewPro thinking??? The situation created by New Pro would put a bad taste in the new potential clients mind right up front along with all the extra work it has created for the scapers to straighten the situation out.
I agree with Bunny and Clem about NewPro (a very good, customer-service-oriented vendor, BTW) and was good to deal with in the past. They always stood behind all the products they sold. I did like NewPro’s new website for just the catalog of planter’s styles and colors…but I won’t send that out to a proposed client anymore. Good luck to all of you but most of all I wish NewPro lotsa luck to straighten this situation out and maintain the existing clients you have. This posting sure has created some interesting reads.

I can’t believe the number of reads this post has and almost twice the number of responses as other posts too !!!

And still we hear crickets.

And we are still waiting to hear from NewPro directly, and having them have their say regarding this situation, and how they are going to post prices on their web site in the future. They are probably too busy selling directly to all of your clients to take the time and post to this board, or even time to read the postings.
Rick

It has happened again.

NEW PRO HAS SOLD DIRECTLY TO ONE OF MY COMMERCIAL CLIENTS AGAIN. It
is fruitless to discuss if they are wholesale or to the trade, as there web site
alleges. THEY ARE NOT. All you have to do to place an order with this company
is to order on line. I lost out to a very nice sale several thousand dollars, to a
long standing Condominium client of mine. I even brought over container
samples for them to review.
Why?
Because, a board members did a search ON LINE and found an inferior product
sold by NEW PRO’S which was of course cheaper than mine and I lost the sale.
They quote wholesale to anyone.

WE ALL SHOULD NEVER BUY FROM NEW PRO EVER. ALL TRADE MAGAZINE’S
SHOULD REFUSE THERE ADVERTISING.

Greg,

Astonishing that this has happened to *you* again!

The ONLY product that we’ve ever bought from Newpro is the trash bag that I bought to test this all out when I first posted about this happening to you months ago.

It’s mind-boggling to me that they are still doing this.

Shameful actually!

Steve

I have a suspicion that it’s not just NewPro that does this sort of thing. Other vendors allow anyone to access their website and pricing. However, the way other vendors handle this is to offer "list" pricing in their catalogs and give an unspecified discount for wholesale/distributor customers (i.e., "to the trade"). That discount may vary depending on the nature of the customer (interior decorator vs. retailer vs. interiorscaper, etc.) or volume of purchase, but it does an effective job of discriminating between legit wholesale customers and retail customers looking to buy "at wholesale", yet still allowing the vendor to market its products to end users and to the trade. I don’t have a problem with that, since an end-user purchasing at "list" will pay about the same, after shipping, as I would charge them for the same item after my discount plus markup.

You can certainly find virtually identical containers and other supplies from other vendors besides NewPro, so vote with your feet if you still feel wronged by their policy of direct online sales to the public "at wholesale". But be aware also that this is definitely the wave of the future...it’s called "business to business marketing", and it’s hot with purchasing managers everywhere, for everything from PVC pipe to paper products to janitorial supplies to you name it.

Clem

I agree with you Clem, I think the future is in buying directly from the
manufacturer and we as interiorscaper, at best will get a discount from the
manufacturer suggested retail price. Manufacturers (who in some cases are
actually themselves middlemen, having everything made in Asia) can now
reach their target clients directly and at a minimum cost. They don’t really
need us. All it would take is for them to advertise a bit more and then
everybody would know about the availability of the product.

As much as I like selling containers and would like to continue doing so, what
do we really do to justify buying a container $100 and sell it $200? All we do
is carry a bunch of catalogs, make a couple of suggestions and then let the
customer make a decision. Then of course we order them and deliver them
but in the end it’s a process that can very easily be done by the end
customer.

Again, we need to adjust to the market rather than cry about our lost
privileges.

We need to emphasize on the service we can provide and that the
manufacturer cannot. We can bring samples (we already do that of course),
we can install a few plants with different containers so the undecided
customer can easily pick what he wants, we can offer a 30 day money back
guarantee, we can offer to rotate containers every couple of years as styles
evolve. We can also make the customer aware of the risks involved for him to
buy a product that may not work for him, that he may not be able to return.
We could also charge what a restaurant charges when you bring your own
bottle: a cork fee. In our case it would be a higher installation fee due to the
extra handling.

For now I commit to not buy from anybody selling direct at wholesale price
because they want their cake and eat it too and I will protect our market as
long as we can hold on to it. They are going to have to make a choice: it’s
either direct selling or us.

Patrice

Patrice,

I agree that we need to emphasize the services we offer that you described, they are valuable services.

But I’m thinking about the basic services as well. Some customers are savvy enough and motivated enough to do their own container purchasing. But are they going to understand how to choose the appropriate size containers for the grow pot size, how to stage the plant to the right height in the container, how to mulch it? Not to mention how to find what they want from the many companies and container lines out there? It’s a big learning curve, and the smaller clients especially don’t have the time or the interest to deal with that.

I mark my containers up by 50%, not 100%. Recently I had a client who was choosing between a medium range container line and a very expensive container line, and I discounted the very expensive ones a little more (not that they knew that). I would get a larger total fee if they went with the more expensive line, so it was win-win for both of us. They chose the pricier one - hooray!

Sheila

Andy Gray Is Sexy

This is why I REFUSE to buy from NewPro! I haven’t bought containers from them for a long time now!

As for purchasing directly from the manufacturers...Many of us purchase our plants direct from the growers, so why don’t we purchase direct from the manufacturers? Just makes sense to be doing so.

John,

Wow, you’re really on fire today...what was in your Wheaties this morning? You’re replying to a thread that’s almost three months old and has had no action since the end of July!

Besides being obsolete, your post consists entirely of a huge, glaring contradiction: you say you won’t buy directly from NewPro, yet you say it makes perfect sense to buy directly from the manufacturer. NewPro IS a manufacturer...or are you referring to jetting over to China and cutting your own deal with the factory for your ten cases of 12" black cylinders? I can hear them chuckling all the way from Zhejiang...

Clem

Sigh. I’m done with this board. Nothing has changed in terms of attitudes or content.

I’ve got my contacts, suppliers, etc. I don’t need any more pessemistic, slow-to-react, sticks-in-the-mud giving me advice. From now on, I’m sticking to ONLY the magazine to get my advice and contacts. Not too many forward thinkers here.

bye john.

have fun in your other life!

hopefully lots of forward thinkers there