Has anyone done business with this company?
www.indoorflowerpots.com

I haven’t used them, but based on page design and products, it looks like a retail site for Newpro.

Seems that way, doesn’t it? Same e-commerce provider, same web designer, same fonts and layouts...here we go again, methinks.

Clem

And don’t forget about the nearly-identical URLs for the two home pages ... the only difference being the domain names; the directories and filenames are the same. Good sleuthing, Jerry. Chameleons!

"Retail" would would be a misnomer Guy. Have you looked at the pricing!

So I could buy a 30 lb bale of Fire retardant Fibrex from Newpro for the fab price of $125.00 "wholesale" (with shipping included no less) or I could buy the same thing from Indoor Flower Pots for the such-a-steal-RETAIL-price of $5.00 more!

Why an industry supplier would do this is beyond my comprehension!

C’mon guys, Noone’s faulting you from going after the retail trade and creating a great e-commerce website, but for Gods sake, why would you list a "retail" price that’s $5.00 more than what your "wholesale" customers would pay?

This is just plain stupid! Why would you want to make such a miniscule margin on a gazillion boxes of Fibrex to a potentially global customer base when you could sell the darned box for a true "retail" price less a bit of a discount, NOT piss off your "wholesale" customers (of which I’m not one) AND you could be laughing all the way to the bank!

My word would be a lot stronger than "chameleons" Greg, but I think they have rules against words like that here.

Does this bother anyone else?

Steve

Another thing somewhat deceptive to the end purchasor on that IFP site!

Look at the price of a Self Watering Cubico 16", It’s listed at $122.95 but when one adds it to the cart, suddenly the "self watering" container for $122.95 requires that one pay an additional $37 for the "sub-irrigation" component so the REAL price is $159.95.

Sneaky huh.

Not to worry though. Wholesale customers can get the whole shebang... container and subirrigation over at NewPro for the such-a-steal wholesale price of $135.00

Whopeeeeee.... we have the potential to make a $25.00 gross margin on a container if we try to compete with this supplier’s "retail" pricing.

Interestingly, the same container with sub-irrigation over at plantcontainers.com (A TRUE retail site) is $250.45

If this indeed is the company that has been mentioned........... no worries......they are only trying to beef up their sales to their "overseas customers"...remember.......that "less than 1 percent" of their volume.So it makes perfectly good sense to simply add another name and website.....you know..........compete with your other name and website. Customers get confused and simply buy from one or the other.

Now really, if this is the same company they can do whatever they want.Its a free market.Yes it makes us mad but hey, its not like we have to sell that product at all.........wait....there is an idea.......after all it is a free market....I suggest we boycott ANYTHING that site sell and let every single supplier to that company know why !!
After all..it is a free market.....

This affects my sales strategy as I usually tell customers to "Google" the planter manufacturers to see the planters.
Now this site will pop up and the customer will see the prices at significantly less than we plan to charge.
Jerry, I’m with you. They need to know they are biting the hand that feeds them.
David

I’ve only purchased once from this company and it was about a year or so ago when I posted my "Business Ethics" thread and wanted to "test" their theory that they only sold to re-sellers.

Well, we all know where that thread went!

Just about everything they sell can be purchased elsewhere, so I’m not so sure about "boycotting" the products themselves. certainly though, we do have the option of purchasing these products from vendors who value our business and play above board.

They have a well designed and highly search engine optimized (SEO) website that will be, and has been quite successful at stealing sales away from interiorscaper’s.

As David mentioned, this drastically changes the way we as an industry can represent our vendors products, especially containers! Both online and in our written proposals.

The internet has changed everything and will continue to do so ’specially when it’s helped along by some who just don’t give a damn.

As someone who knows a bit about SEO, I would strongly suggest that every interiorscaper with a website immediately contact their web designers and request that they remove all brand name references in text and image titles and refrain from mentioning them to prospective clients. In other words don’t say "Lechuza column cubico planter" but instead something like "tall tapered eurostyle square"

It’s of course a shame that we should have to be concerned about in effect MINIMIZING the SEO of our own websites to deter our clients from finding our suppliers online and buying direct.

Fortunately, most industry suppliers don’t support the practice of competing with their wholesale customers.

Everyone in this industry should be OUTRAGED at this, it’s a total slap in the face!

Do I feel better now? Just a little!


Steve

Steve,I for one will write Lechusa and find out what their take is on this practice.But till then I simply will not mention nor promote this container.They can put it online any way at any price they want.The reality is that most of the large end users of the container usually go through someone first before buying.The vast majority of our potential customers are not going online to search for their own containers.Furthermore I don’t see this container as being a "top of the line " type container.Its ironic that less than a month ago a salesperson from the aforementioned company stopped in to try and sell me product. When I asked him about selling direct he looked me square in the eye and said"oh no we don’t sell direct". Sorta answers the question about ethics....huh.

Jerry,

An end user can purchase the 16" column cubico (with subirrigation) directly from Lechuza.com for the $211.85 plus $21.19 shipping...total $233.04 which is about the same as I would probably sell it for at "full list" so I don’t have a problem with that!

Lechuza themselves obviously are protecting their wholesale customers’ pricing, so perhaps your your thought of addressing this directly with them is a good idea.

Could be that it’s the weekend, but are there fewer than five of us that are at least a little concerned about this?

Lots of views, I know they’re not all me. Hopefully tomorrow, more of us will chime in.

Steve

I stand 100% behind you guys. I had a run in with this company last year when they claimed to be offering a copy of our best selling item at a extremely low price. They stopped making that claim, and now strangely enough are selling what they were claiming to be a copy at a price almost 4 times what we are selling it for.

Here is another particular disturbing fact I just discovered while looking over the site. They are ripping off Kaddy Products items, and calling them by the same name that Kaddy Products uses, and selling them at about a third of the price of the official Kaddy Products.

As Barb says...go get them guys.

It’s a free market, however I would hope that most interiorscapers would tend to send their business to those companies who don’t practice such business practices.

Rick

Has anyone actually lost sales by this practice? Even if the odd customer does buy containers online on their own, they still get the plants from you. Until you actually notice this as a regular practice, I’d suggest just being thankful they provide containers. I use Newpro all the time and have EXCELLENT service from them. My stuff is here within days and have never had an order wrong. My experience has shown me that if a client is willing to go to the trouble of finding their own containers it’s basically a lost cause trying to sell them containers at a marked up price. I had a client once just gasp at what I provided for options and they went to a big box store and bought their own. They know and I know they’re just cheap plastic saucered pots but it’s not my livingroom and I don’t have to look at them for more than an hour a week. I lost a container sale but in todays market, I’ll take the plants and maintenance. So I still provided the plants (a little more expensive) and have the maintenance....for the last 4 years. They don’t even put it out to bid anymore. Most clients however can’t be bothered looking for something so trivial as plant pots.

Thanks for chiming in Rick.

"how many sales..." Why wouldn’t you put your name to your post? Dunno who you are, but you obviously have your head in the sand. Go back through the archives and read about the sales that we know of that were lost to this company!

Noone has disputed their excellent and reliable service.

It’s about being ethical and I’m sure that you wouldn’t feel the same way if you’d just lost out on a large container sale to them!

Don’t you get it? Suppose all of our suppliers decided to operate this way. Nursery suppliers, plant wholesalers and other container suppliers.

It’s irrelevant whether it was one lost container sale or one thousand!

I suspect that "how many sales", since they are unwilling to post their real name, is actually someone from NewPro in disguise. Sounds like the company line to me.

Rick

I have had many dealings with Newpro and they have all been excellent. In the economic climate of today I will not fault them for trying to increase their business.

Sue, what you and others may not have thought about is that if this company were to sell at a "reasonably" lower price it probably would not hurt their sales at all.In fact they would probably make more money without hurting the other folks with a price so low it not even in the ballpark with others just like them.You don’t have to be 30 or 40 percent lower,just be lower.If your competitor was selling a product for 2 dollars and you wanted to sell for less why would you sell for 1 dollar? Why not 1.90 instead? Its in no ones best interest to have a company do what they are doing.I’m sure someone will argue this point.I’m not sure how, but step up and lets hear about it.

"I have had many dealings with Newpro and they have all been excellent. In the economic climate of today I will not fault them for trying to increase their business."

Sue, with all due respect, that’s just about the same as saying to your prospective client "Oh. OK then, their price was half ours. Sure we can do it for that!"

Economic climate has NOTHING to to do with this!

We’re ALL getting screwed by the current economic climate. That doesn’t justify unethical business practice, does it?

Yeah, that was a question. Answer please!

Steve

It’s not often that the State of New Jersey’s arcane and overly complicated statutes inspire creative solutions to small business problems, but allow me to propose a simple, elegant solution to the problem that is the subject of this discussion. First, though, you will have to indulge me for a bit while I lay the groundwork...

In New Jersey, we actually have state laws regulating how much a contractor (including landscape contractors, which includes interiorscaping contractors, by the way) may charge for the products it sells (NOT the services, the PRODUCTS). For instance, if I buy a plant for $25.00 wholesale price, I am forbidden by law to resell it as part of an interior landscape installation for more than $25.00. That’s right! Just as a decorative planter that I buy at wholesale for $45.00 cannot be resold for more than $45.00. Why? The State of New Jersey has determined that contractors are NOT retailers. They are simply using certain products (faucets, windows, light fixtures, planters, pavers) in the performance of a service...the installation of plumbing, electrical, carpentry, or landscaping fixtures. Here is the exact quote from Publication ANJ-4, Landscapers and New Jersey Sales Tax:

"Since contractors are not “resellers,” they cannot mark up the materials. Thus, the markup properly belongs in the “labor” category of the bill."

Now, you may say, that’s crazy! Un-American, even! And you would be right, except the State of New Jersey is not engaging in price controls or trying to prevent businesses from making a profit on their work. It’s simply an arbitrary system for ensuring that customers of such contractors can fairly compare what it is they’re paying for on a job they contract to have done. That is, they are eliminating the widely varying pricing for the GOODS in order to level the playing field on reselling of fixtures and materials so the customer can fairly compare apples to apples. That’s because the other half of the equation...namely, installation charges...will be the only line item that will vary among different contractors, assuming they are all sourcing the same fixtures/materials. This, in the opinion of the learned legislators and bureaucrats who wrote the statute and crafted the regulations for it, is preferable to having different contractors pricing the same fixtures/materials differently in order to hide the true cost of their work from the customer. I guess.

So how does that apply here? Well, if we ’scapers were to employ this system when quoting a job, it wouldn’t matter whether the client went online to price the same containers from NewPro or from anyone else. If NewPro is charging $45.00 for a container on their direct e-commerce site, and also charges that same $45.00 to its wholesale customers (’scapers), then no advantage will accrue to the end-user by buying direct from NewPro. In fact, it would be a decided disadvantage, since it would be more complicated to address exchanges, damages, and other adjustments with NewPro than with the local contractor (’scaper). A pot will then be just a pot, and the only comparison pricing will be among different manufacturers and distributors’ wholesale pricing, since the ’scaper will be charging its local client the same price as the container distributor would charge in a direct e-commerce transaction.

But how does the ’scaper make a profit on the containers??? Simple. After calculating all of the costs for the job...plant costs, container costs, topdressing and staging costs, delivery costs...the ’scaper simply determines the desired markup on the entire job, soup to nuts, and adds that line item to the quotation. The materials are billed at cost, and the labor is billed at a price that includes the desired markup on the entire job. Got it? Then the client can spend as many happy hours online surfing for a better price and will never find one. And then you can patronize whichever supplier you like with a clear conscience, since they will be on a level playing field with you for any job, as long as they don’t engage in any secret undercutting (which should be pretty easy to uncover if it does occur).

What do y’all think about this idea? It certainly is simple, almost unbelievably so, and I guess it must therefore have some defects in it somewhere. Which, I’m sure, some of you guys will be more than happy to point out...and if not, maybe we have a pragmatic solution to this mess.

Clem

Oh, and think fast...I’m going on vacation for a week to Ocala, Florida, where my mom lives and where the computer and e-mail are as rare as natural teeth. So let’s try to resolve this before Wednesday, okay?

Clem

Didn’t have time to read ALL the hoo-ha Clem, but got the jist of it I hope.

Question -
Isn’t New Jersey screwing themselves out of a lot of sales tax by calling all that money "labor". California couldn’t survive. We pay and charge sales tax on everything.

OK, Clem, got it. Let’s all agree on a mark-up and stick to it. But I want to
reserve the right to add a "Rich People’s Tax" if I perceive the client to be well
heeled OK? And have a great trip to Ocala!

The vendor in question has never really been on my radar. My only experience
with a client purchasing direct from them was an instance where someone
bought a 24"X6" planter box thinking it was a possible solution for planting
bamboo in their office in. Alas, no. Plus when we are in the market for any such
items, we go through a vendor I won’t personally name here, but she goes by
the name of Aunt Barb. *wink*

One vendor I know sells direct and through suppliers, but has a separate web
presence for one-offs to mostly householders. Different pricing structure,
which of course makes sense.

Matthew,

I never said we should agree on a markup...far from it...we should all quote our pricing at cost (as contractors) and put whatever markup on goods and labor we decide is acceptable for us into the "installation" line item of the quotation/invoice. That way, there would be no difference from contractor to contractor in the quoted price of, say, a fiberglass 16" Gainey Portofino planter in a given finish. The differences will be in the amount of labor charged plus the markup on the entire job. That eliminates the "NewPro Factor" for online shoppers among the end-user population, since we would quote them the same cost for their containers as NewPro would.

Clem

I recieved a reply from Lechusa amd they were unaware this was happening but would look into it.They said they sell in 60 different countries which made me think of the "overseas sales" claim by Newpro. Now how are they going to sell overseas? Ship the 4 Quadro’s direct from Lechusa to the customer in Taiwan? I have a hard time believing thats what would happen.If Lechusa has distributors in 60 countries I would think Newpro would have a hard time with that as a business stradegy.

The internet is a vast new selling tool. We will be seeing many different ways to market products. You can find anything you want and you can always find products cheaper. Our customers are using the internet more and more and we are going to have to learn and deal with it. Some customers are going to look for the cheapest container possible along with the cheapest interiorscaper. If thats the way a company wants to do business good luck. But if we can explain why we are saving them time and money we should be ok. I was just saying the internet is a huge fact of life now. I have friends in furniture and they are getting crushed by the internet. Luckily we dont live or die by the container. What Clem said makes sense as far as maybe making the money on the container might not be the way to go, but in our services. I prefer both personnally.

Clem, you said:
"...we should all quote our pricing at cost (as contractors) and put whatever markup on goods and labor we decide is acceptable for us into the "installation" line item of the quotation/invoice. That way, there would be no difference from contractor to contractor in the quoted price of, say, a fiberglass 16" Gainey Portofino planter in a given finish. The differences will be in the amount of labor charged plus the markup on the entire job. That eliminates the "NewPro Factor" for online shoppers among the end-user population, since we would quote them the same cost for their containers as NewPro would."

That may work in New Jersey because of that "contractor" law you quoted, but here in Florida, that wouldn’t fly! Our Department of Revenue wants the sales tax revenue on the sale of the product and there is no sales tax here on services.

I’m not convinced that would solve the real issue that this and the other thread is about anyway, as there are variances in the wholesale price of products so everyone wouldn’t be necessarily starting at the same point.

I’d like to clarify that I (nor do I think anyone else) has an issue with anyone selling their product online to various market segments at various price points.

We do it ourselves in that we offer trade discounts to qualified design professionals who purchase product from us. The distinction is that we don’t offer that same discount to an end user who walks in and wants to purchase 6 containers.

Sue, while I understand your point about the internet changing things, and yes in your example I’m sure your friends in the furniture business are being crushed because there are others selling the same furniture for less (my assumpion) but that’s not the same as what we’re talking about here.

Hopefully, the supplier of their furniture is not selling it online to the public for the same price as they are selling it to your friend for.

I’m in business to make a profit. Period!

And when a supplier sells to the end user for the same price as (s)he sells to me for, I can’t compete with that. Nor should I have to!

geez... I need to get back to work. gotta sell some stuff :)

Steve

Most of you are missing the point.

The container distributor selling direct to the end-user can only potentially make a sale of the containers they carry at the wholesale price they offer them for online.

The interiorscaper can purchase the same containers from the same distributor at the same price and incorporate the markup on the containers into the installation price the ’scaper charges so that it can show the container cost at the same price as the distributor offers the same containers to the end-user online.

The end-user sees that the local ’scaper charges the same as the direct-seller but also is a first-person presence who will install the containers with the appropriate staging, topdressing, etc., and is inclined to go with the ’scaper, since the container portion of the deal costs the same as, say , NewPro would charge them from a distance. This is what we mean by "value added"...it’s not just the commodities (plants and pots) we’re selling, but the entire package of goods and services!

I’m not suggesting we sell a job for less, but rather that we display the costs to the end-user in a different way than we’re used to, in order to grab a bigger piece of the pie in this day of direct internet marketing. I could bore you with a breakdown that would illustrate it, but you’re all smart business people and should be able to see this point. It also has NOTHING to do with sales tax (that was an aside that was meant to illustrate a concept)...unless your state doesn’t permit you to charge sales tax on services, which is the case in some jurisdictions. That’s immaterial, however, since you’re charging the client the wholesale price and charging them tax on that, and increasing the installation price to cover what would have been your normal margin on the containers but is now folded into services/labor (to unload/inspect/unpack/prep/repack/deliver/unpack/stage/install the containers), which is not taxable in Florida, for instance, as Steve mentioned. You’re just charging more for installation than you were before and charging less for the pots...no state can tell you that’s illegal!

Bottom line: containers quoted at landed cost, just like the direct-seller does it, and margin added to the installation charge gives us the same package price.

Gotta fly!

Clem

Clem, is that a little pink umbrella in the glass you are holding? Already on that vacation?......Just kidding ....

"...no state can tell you that’s illegal!"

Clem I know you gotta fly, but I’m not so sure about that!

For arguements sake, let’s say that I buy $2500.00 worth of plants and containers and sell them to a client for $6000.00 plus a delivery and installation fee of $500. At our sales tax rate of 7%, the state realizes $420.00 of revenue.

If I charged the client $2500.00 for the plants and containers and $4000.00 for delivery and installation the state would realize $175.00 in revenue and somehow I don’t think they would think that’s cool!

Whether it’s legal or illegal, I don’t know, but I’ll sure ask our attorney. Sounds too good to be true though and you know what they say about that.


BTW "Jerrt" is it cocktail hour in the lonestar state already?

;) Steve

Question, Clem. Would you suggest the same pricing strategy for plant sales so that our plant prices are more in line with what Home Depot charges?

~Will

It sounds as though Clem is off for a much deserved vacation. I always know I
am ready when the math starts not making sense.

And not for the first time am I glad that I don’t live in New Jersey.

Happy trails Clem! Enjoy Ocala Fl!

I’m on a well-deserved vacation myself this week, but checking in anyway. I understand Clem’s point. We don’t have that kind of law in Maryland, but we do have the same sales tax scenario that Steve does.

So far, I’ve been quoting a flat price for installations (which does incidentally mean the client pays more sales tax as Steve explained). My reasoning behind this is that some clients would balk at the high price of containers if I broke that out, other clients might balk at the high price of labor/installation if I broke that out. With a flat price, they just see a number, decide if it works in their budget or not, and move on.

I consider it analagous to buying a sofa for my living room. I don’t really care if there is a delivery charge, an installation charge, a removal charge for the old sofa, etc. I just want to know the total cost to see a lovely new sofa in my room. If I were buying containers and plants, I would just want to know the total cost to see a lovely bunch of plants and containers scattered throughout my building.

But if I got the feeling that prospects were container shopping on the net, yeah, I’d do exactly what Clem suggests. It’s a good strategy, if it comes to that.

Sheila honey...Log off immediately...And finish your vacation. No internet contact until you return..In fact: NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

Have fun and come back refreshed and happy...

Doug

Nope, no soup. ;) Just a whole lotta fresh shrimp and scallops. Yum. And cold adult beverages. Also yum.

Yeah, I shouldn’t be on here, but the kids are watching a dumb movie on TV and the rest of the adults fell asleep and I finished my trashy novel...

Okay...nine days later and that’s all you guys have mined from this nugget? Congrats to Sheila for "getting it"...it matters not what the itemized pricing is, but rather the "installed price, complete", as I like to phrase it in my quotations. I used to itemize line item pricing, but no more.

If the client is purchasing only containers (upgrading their existing planter inventory but keeping the plants as-is), then do it the way I suggested...price the containers at cost and the installation charges to include what would have been your customary markup on the containers. Or, as Sheila suggests, just give a total cost, installed.

If the client is purchasing plants and containers, you can quote the planters at cost, and even the plants at cost (especially if required by your state’s contractor pricing laws, as in NJ), and again, the markup is included in the line item called "installation" or whatever.

If leasing, never itemize anything. It’s a package price including plants, containers and maintenance, so quote a monthly number and that’s it. You get to build your markup into the lease price without revealing what it is, so why show it on the outright sale quotation?

Doesn’t any of this make better sense to you than what you’re doing now?

Clem

P. S.: Florida was okay, didn’t make it to Marie Selby, but saw some interesting things in a "busman’s holiday" kind of experience walking through various airports and hotels. The plants at Tampa International Airport looked good, but alas, the ones at Charlotte, NC airport...not so good. Very dusty and not well-pruned, plus bad scale on the Ficus trees I saw. I know, it’s an airport, and it’s hard (been there, done that), but ya gotta clean ’em sometime! Best plants I saw: the lobby and exterior plantings at the Intercontinental Hotel in Tampa...VERY nice work and some good use of "zebras"! I liked the simple "hedgerows" of ZZ’s in the entrance driveway under the overhang, nice long bronze planters, too (although the "sore thumbs"...WHITE PVC sighting/siphon tubes sticking out of the very tailored planters instead of less obtrusive black...detracted somewhat from the overall effect) and the exterior beds were immaculately manicured as well (same contractor?). Kudos to whomever does that account.

Clem, its sounds like what you are suggesting is the equvolent of pricing just your labor only you are charging more for it. It would be hard to justify that sort of pricing to a customer who was a little bit savy.I hope we all don’t come to the point we are simply farming out our labor.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!

Listen, forget the part about rolling the markup on plants and pots into the installation charge and showing only the cost of the containers (except for container-only sales where you suspect or know that the client or prospect has online "wholesale" pricing in hand...then you have no choice but to match the "cost" price from the dealer or manufacturer or lose the sale). Let’s follow Sheila’s lead (and my current practice) of selling a job as a single-line, "full delivered price"...after all, we’re always saying we shouldn’t "commoditize" our services or we’re just like a supermarket chain or big box store. What we sell is a package of goods and services that are integrated into a comprehensive horticultural program for commercial office buildings or whatever, right?

So you itemize the quantities and specs (but not prices) for each plant and pot you’re selling. If it’s a lease, your only price quotation is the total monthly lease-with-maintenance charge; if it’s an outright sale, you show a full package price, which includes the plants, pots, topdressing, staging, subirrigation units, etc., plus a separate line item for Maintenance Charges, Billed Monthly. Simple as that. No fussing over a couple of dollars on this Vista planter or that TOPsider or the staggered Marginata vs. the braided one. All the detail is there in the specs and can be compared to the competition’s specs, and you give a Complete Package Price at the bottom line, which can also be compared to the competition’s bottom line, and maybe more dramatically from an apples-to-oranges standpoint without all that confusing unit or line item pricing data to spin the head of the client. Here it is, here’s our best price, here’s our rep for service and professionalism, when can we get started?

That’s all folks, ’cause if it doesn’t make sense by now, you’re a commodities guy/gal. Stop thinking item pricing and start thinking turnkey package value!

Clem

Ok I see what you mean now. Rentokil has done this for years. You too?

What you are doing is simply eliminating line item pricing.But when a good RFP ask for line item.what do you do then?

"If the client is purchasing only containers (upgrading their existing planter inventory but keeping the plants as-is), then do it the way I suggested...price the containers at cost and the installation charges to include what would have been your customary markup on the containers. Or, as Sheila suggests, just give a total cost, installed."

Clem, if we did things in FL they way you are "required" by law to in NJ we would be breaking the law here!

We can’t just lump it all together in one price as "product" is taxable and "labor" is not.

Bottom line is we are required by law to separate the product price from the labor price...

... and how did we get on this subject anyway?

This whole thing isn’t about how to present our pricing in proposals. It’s about ethics really... again!

I know you’re a wholesaler as well as a retailer and I’m guessing that you don’t sell to your retail customers at wholesale prices. Or do you?

Steve

Steve, in Maryland, if we give one lump price that includes both labor and product and there is no breakout, we must charge sales tax on the whole thing.

If we itemize, we may charge sales tax only on the product and not on the labor, although the legislature is considering changing that law.

Sheila,

Here is one that really throws a wrench into the works.

2 years ago we had a tax audit by MD. Long story short. The guy was in our office (no joke) for a straight month.

Anyway, he told us that if we direct plant a plant in a "Built in" planter or any thing that is considered attached to the building ... that was considered part of the building structure and that we did not need to charge tax on those kind of accounts. He said any item that we sell that can be moved or taken out of the building is to have sales tax applied.

And yet he found that we did not pay tax to a carpet vendor when they came out and re-carpeted our office about 4 years earlier and we had to cough up the money on this one. We argued it, using his words that the carpet was glued to the floor and that we could not take it out of the building. His comment ... "Sue the state, you’ll loose."

Any way we had to pay about $4K in total for the 4 year audit that he did. We were happy that was all that he could come up with.

As for his comments about where and when to charge tax... I’m sure if you called them ... you’d get a different answer every time you talk to someone else. Go figure.

John is correct about getting a different answer every time you call a government office with a question about interpretation of the law or regulations. However, the New Jersey landscape contractor sales tax regs are published in plain English on the state’s website and as a printed publication available by mail.

Funny, in New Jersey planting a plant is not considered a capital improvement under any circumstances anymore (see the same Publication ANJ-4):

"Effective October 1, 2006, the capital improvement exemption for certain defined landscaping services is no longer available. Thus, the following types of services, which were previously exempt capital improvements
to real property, are subject to tax on and after October 1, 2006:
EXAMPLES OF TAXABLE SERVICES
• Planting: trees, shrubs, hedges, plants, etc.
• Lawns: laying new sod and seeding a new lawn
• Clearing and filling land associated with seeding,
sodding, grass plugging of new lawns, or
planting trees, shrubs, hedges, plants, etc. This
also includes tree/stump removal."

So not only does each state do it differently, but each state apparently changes its mind about how it does things on a regular basis...no wonder many of us have no idea how these regs apply to us, or even IF they do!

We got on this topic because I was trying to find a workaround for this problem...we obviously aren’t going to cure NewPro’s "challenged ethics" by tossing it around here (by now we know that if you don’t currently buy from NewPro, you’re probably going to be critical of them on this topic and won’t buy from them in the future, so it’s just so much hot air anyway), but maybe we can be creative and find a way to take the air out of the NewPro direct-marketing balloon. That was my objective with my suggestion and Sheila’s with her better one. Sometimes it doesn’t pay to tilt at windmills when riding the donkey around the windmill will get the job done faster, better and more effectively.

Clem

John, that is just too bizarre! I used to work in real estate lending and was aware that anything attached to the house was a fixture (carpeting, ceiling lights, even shelving bolted to the wall) and conveyed with the house. But plants? I never thought about that one!

I try to avoid calling governmental agencies whenever possible. Every few months, I go to the website, read it, and do my best to understand and make sure I am complying with the present regulations. I’m still a bit hazy on the guaranteed maintenance - it appears that the maintenance would not be taxable but the guarantee part probably would be. There is no way that I am breaking out my guarantee charge on an invoice, so it’s just one lump sum that all gets taxed. This way, it’s a moot point and I figure I can’t get in trouble because all the tax gets remitted.

I guess the states wouldn’t mind if you collected sales tax on everything you sell, right? That way, if they audit you and find that you collected TOO MUCH sales tax and remitted it all to them (fat chance of them finding THAT in your records), you just might get a refund for the overpayment...worst case scenario, you get the refund check and send each of your clients their portion of the proceeds...there’s no better client relations tool than the unexpected "surprise refund"! Proof of that is when politicians send out property tax "relief" checks in the fall, right before election time...even though they’re giving you back your own money (which has already been taxed at least once or twice), most people look at it as a "gift" of some sort and tend to vote the scondrels back into office a few weeks later.

Clem

Interesting debate, business ethics go both ways, with the people you deal with and the people that deal with you. Often you have a feeling about the people you are dealing with and if it does not feel good or you catch them in a lie, or they overstate things, let your intuition guide you. Most clients realise that there is a price to pay for sourcing and delivering the products that they could go out and try to find for themselves.
Frankly, if a client wants to discuss our level of pricing, we have no problem telling them that we provide superior service, provide benefits to our employees, take the time to be involved in the community, use only premium grown plants etc etc.
Anyway, the way we deal with suppliers is quite simple, if you treat us right, you will have us for life, Peter

Peter, you are of course correct. However, the beef some people have with this particular supplier is that, when this issue first arose in the recent past, they came on this board and went through a long and complicated explanation of the whys and wherefores of their e-commerce site’s workings, and their bottom line was that the direct pricing was just some sort of marketing gadget to get them more hits internationally (?). Or at least that’s what I got out of it, so I guess their explanation wasn’t too clear.

I speak as a NewPro customer of many years myself, so I have nothing but good things to say about the company as a quality supplier and responsive vendor. However, I have no way of knowing how many potential sales I may have lost or might lose in the future due to their aggressive e-commerce marketing strategy that purports to be "wholesale to the trade" but actually indiscriminately sells to anybody with the money to pay for the merchandise. That runs counter to their earlier protestations to the contrary and to the stated policy on the site itself! So they should simply drop the pretense of "to the trade", admit that they don’t protect their trade customers, and let the chips fall where they may.

A far better solution would be for NewPro to refer all inquiries to one of their regular wholesale customers located in the same area as the inquiring prospect whenever possible. If there’s no NewPro customer in that area, then it would be okay for NewPro to sell direct to that prospect. That would solve everyone’s moral and ethical (as well as economic) problem with this marketing behavior and everyone would be happy. Why they don’t do just that is beyond me.

Clem

"Why they don’t do just that is beyond me."

...BECAUSE THEY DON’T GIVE A DAMN!

I doubt it’s as simple as that...why would NewPro market to ’scapers and spend the money to advertise and send marketing materials to us if they didn’t want our business?

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Clem

Clem, the answer to they question as to why is simple. First the must be assuming that they have a product that scapers will buy no matter what they do and they will lose no sales in the process.A mistake in stadegy in my view.Second and a more blunt answer...greed.I was visited by a sales person who sat in front of me and told me that they did not sell direct. Now I don’t care who you are or what you sell I will not do business with anyone with such a lack of honesty. If you are going to do it at least just tell the truth and do it.If a business has no more integrity than that I simply will choose not to support them.

NewPro obviously doesn’t believe that they’re the only game in town, so that doesn’t fly.

Are you telling me that a NewPro salesperson sat in your office and told you they don’t sell direct to non-trade customers? If that’s true, that’s a major problem for me.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of different versions of this story going around, which makes it a tough call without a statement from NewPro management for their side of the story at this point. Perhaps they have decided to change their policy, sell direct, and just neglected to tell us? Hmmm.

Clem

Clem. He sat in the blue chair in front of my desk 4 feet away and when asked about the selling direct he told me "oh no, we don’t do that" and suggested I call and ask George to verify this for me and gave mr his cell phone number to call. I have no reason to make this up.

Jerry,

I didn’t imply that you made it up, but a statement like that needs to be crystal clear. Did you call George and verify the salesperson’s statement with him? What did George say to you?

Clem

Clem, I didn’t mean that you were implying I made it up...sorry if it was understood that way.No I didn’t call him..I think he has already stated enough for me to see through the smoke and with this web site mentioned above I don’t think it could be any clearer what is really taking place..do you??

Tell you what I’m gonna do...as a longtime NewPro customer, I’m going to reach out to George and ask him to clearly articulate his company’s policy here once and for all. I will ask for an explanation of how end-users are purchasing containers from NewPro online if they supposedly sell only "to the trade". Then I’ll check back with you all, one way or the other. I’d like to give the guy a chance to clear the air and state, for the record, what his longtime customers can expect going forward.

Clem

Okay, this gets sillier by the minute. Now I’m smelling a tempest in a teapot over this online pricing dustup.

I was in the process of going through with my promised contact to George Dearringer at NewPro when I decided to do some fact-checking before I opened my yap. What I found puts the lie to some of the chatter that’s been posted here on this thread.

If you go to the NewPro site (www.newprocontainers.com), and click on the link to Potluck planters, you’ll see a display of various sizes and types of plastic pots. I selected the 14.5" x 14" Floor Cylinder at random. Its wholesale (to the trade) landed price is currently $17.00.

Next, go to the associated "direct-sell" website ostensibly operated by NewPro (www.indoorflowerpots.com) and click on the link to Plastic Flower Pots, and you’ll see a similar display of containers just like the ones on the NewPro site. I found the link to the same 14.5" x 14" Floor Cylinder that I selected on the wholesale site; its current landed retail price (available to anyone with a credit card) is $27.80!

Now, maybe my reading comprehension is suffering from an overdue eye exam and encroaching presbyopia, but those two prices are hardly identical! Where did anyone get the idea that NewPro was cutting our throats by selling at the same price on both sites? I checked some other items, and the price differentials were in the same percentage range as my example above.

Has NewPro done some hurried price-changing to the retail site to appease the crowd of ’scapers gathered outside the castle walls, waving pitchforks and torches? Or is this a lot of hot air about nothing?

I have Barb Helfman’s TOPTactics seminar binder handy on my office bookshelf (it’s like the Bible...you already know and remember most of what’s in there, but it’s comforting to go back and read it again for moral support from time to time), and it says in my notes from the seminar that inexpensive containers should be marked up 50% over cost; more expensive types can be marked up 100% over cost. It also says that the average profit margin in the interiorscape industry is between 8 and 12 percent. The markup on the 14.5" Potluck planter I cited above would be $10.80 over the wholesale cost of $17.00 if a ’scaper were to sell it at the same price that it’s offered on indoorflowerpots.com. That would be a 64% markup! Don’t forget, both prices are landed (freight "free"), so that 64% number is a hard fact. Plus, you get to add whatever prep, delivery and installation charges you like to cover the job of getting that pot to its final destination with a plant in it, complete, so there’s an opportunity for even more profit on this container sale.

If NewPro is selling direct at trade wholesale prices to non-interiorscapers, then we have a problem. Otherwise, I don’t get it at all.

Clem

When will you guys wake up? The answer is GREED and IDGAFAY (I DOn’t Give a xxxxxabout u).Someone is laughing all the way to the bank.

Paul (or whoever),

Interesting that when I clicked on your phony moniker I got a link to www.trinity.com, the website for the Gospel Media Network! What’s up with that?

So explain the part about greed. If the selling price for retail direct sales on one site is 64% higher than the selling price "to the trade" on the other, how is that greed? Note: I was good at word problems in math; you, apparently not so much.

If you disagree with a company selling at retail online while also selling at wholesale to the trade at a much lower price, then you must be in favor of price controls and regulating the marketplace. If the selling prices were even CLOSE to the same on both sites, you’d have a valid point. As it is, you’re griping about a nonexistent "wrong". Save your breath for the predatory marketing strategies being practiced by companies in our own industry.

Clem

C’mon Clem, you’re a smart guy, why are we going around in circles on this!

The folks at NewPro got on here when this issue first came to light a year or so ago and vehemently denied that they would "knowingly" sell to end users. Remember all the crap about foreign sales etc.?

A couple of us purchased single items from them as end-sers and the single-item sales went through just fine. If they were actively screening customers, I’d think that a single purchase of a single item should certainly raise suspicion regarding whether or not this customer is a wholesale one or not! If that didn’t, I don’t know what would. Add to that that I know personally of two interiorscapers who lost decent sized container sales to them after specifying the containers.

Their "solution" to the outcry (little as it is) has been to develop a separate website presumably aimed at the consumer, but to not password protect the original site, so now they have two websites out there...whopee!

Look back at my pricing comparison that I posted in this thread back on July 12.... actually I’ll paste it here:

*******************************************************
Another thing somewhat deceptive to the end purchasor on that IFP site!

Look at the price of a Self Watering Cubico 16", It’s listed at $122.95 but when one adds it to the cart, suddenly the "self watering" container for $122.95 requires that one pay an additional $37 for the "sub-irrigation" component so the REAL price is $159.95.

Sneaky huh.

Not to worry though. Wholesale customers can get the whole shebang... container and subirrigation over at NewPro for the such-a-steal wholesale price of $135.00

Whopeeeeee.... we have the potential to make a $25.00 gross margin on a container if we try to compete with this supplier’s "retail" pricing.

Interestingly, the same container with sub-irrigation over at plantcontainers.com (A TRUE retail site) is $250.45
*********************************************************

Something interesting has happened! On the IFP website, the price of the 16" "self watering" Cubico has increased to $176.00 + $37.00 for the "self watering" component = $213.00 out the door.

To their credit, they’ve raised the price to be much more in line with the consumer price available directly from Lechuza and I’m betting that it’s because of someone bringing this to Lechuza’s attention.

Interestingly, the price of a 30lb bale of fire retardant Fibrex is still available to the consumer for $5.00 more than the wholesale price or they can just hop on over to the "wholsale division" and save $5.00 more.

I don’t have the time go further go through the two sites to compare prices, but I’m certain that the price of that Cubico did increase on the IFP site since my earlier post.

As you’re a longtime and loyal customer I sure hope that they’ll take the time to explain this all to you.

Lord knows, thay’ve had ample opportunity to explain it to us here!

Steve

I’ll let you know what George says, but I doubt that whatever it is will soothe the hard feelings among many here. I’m not a NewPro apologist...but if they screwed up in the beginning with their e-commerce site, and now have corrected it (possibly due to the outcry here, if belatedly), why continue bashing them for past offenses?

A single pot purchase shouldn’t be a "red flag" to anyone, though...I’ve done it myself on occasion (to replace a broken planter or add a plant to a recent installation).

Can you still go on the NewPro site and buy at wholesale without any verification? How much should you have to provide...if it’s enough for someone to come on this site as "Paul Revere/East Coast Plants" without being legit, how much background checking should a vendor do to confirm that a purchaser has the cred to buy "wholesale"?

I’ll let you know what I hear back, but I doubt it will matter much to some. It’s unfair to carry a grudge forever and ever because of an earlier snafu or misunderstanding or shortcoming of the site. If indeed it’s fixed now, why continue the trashing?

Clem

Clem, I’d be very interested to hear what they have to say!

If they have in fact changed ALL the prices on their IFP site then definitely things are headed in the right direction.

I don’t know if some type of reseller authentication is required on their "wholesale" site, that would be a good question for George when you guys chat.

It’s not a matter of "carrying a grudge" or "trashing" and as long as the "wholesale" site is capable/willing to sell to *anyone*, the fact that there is now a retail site (even if it has true retail pricing) is just a slap-in-the-face bandaid if anyone can hop on the other site and shop away anyway!

All it means is a bigger slice of the pie for them at an unfair advantage.

I’m not gonna comment on this again as I’m definitely sounding like a stuck record :)

Let us know what you find out.

Steve

Wow, I just read this and the other thread for the first time. I can’t believe the whining and complaining going on here. They have the right to do whatever they want and maybe if some of you spent more time providing excellent service and selling your own product or services you wouldn’t need to complain about loosing ONE container sale a year. I’m guessing that the company you’re talking about is too busy making money to engage in this nonsense.

People without lives are sooooo annoying. Since I do, don’t expect to get a response from me if you want to find a way to complain about my post.

Clem, if you have been following this from the beginning as Steve eluded to you would understand that its not "carrying a grudge" but simply stating the facts as we have been able to verify. Sounds more like you a willing to "carry the torch" for whatever reason for the company of issue.I’m not bashing you and I don’t want you to take offense, but it looks like you are not being objective here.

:...inexpensive containers should be marked up 50% over cost; more expensive types can be marked up 100% over cost."

What is the rationale for this? I took a short class with Barb a few months back, and she said many people mark up containers 50% period. I got the impression that this was a recent trend, perhaps your notes are from a long-ago seminar - not that I’m implying you are old or anything! ;)

So according to your guideline, say you are selling one inexpensive container that costs $20 wholesale, you mark it up 50% and you make a $10 profit. If you are selling a pricier container that costs $100 wholesale, you could mark it up 50% and make a $50 profit. Ordering, delivering and installing the container costs you pretty much the same, regardless. So you make out much better on the pricier container, EVEN AT THE SAME 50% MARKUP.

The only reason I could see for marking up the pricier container by 100% is that the well-heeled client may be willing to pay for it. And if that works, more power to you!

However, say you’re selling 10 containers, and you write up identical proposals except for the price of the different container lines. If they choose the cheap containers, you make $100. If they choose the pricey ones at a 50% markup, you make $500. If they choose the pricey ones at a 100% markup, you make $1000.

I would rather go for the $500. If I give them a choice between the $1000 version and the $100, they are likely to take $100 and I lose.

In actually, I had a very similar situation, and I sort of split the difference. I think I marked them up by around 70%, as I suspected the client really preferred that one. It worked out for me that time.

I hope this makes sense. I’m still on my first cuppa coffee!

Don’t shoot the messenger, Sheila, I’m just regurgitating what I got out of the seminar in April of 1999. Perhaps Barb’s guidelines have changed a bit since then. I don’t know the rationale for the disparity in markups between budget planters and high-end ones, either. Maybe Barb can clarify for you.

Clem

Hey, Jerry,

I don’t take offense to anything you said (it’s just business, nothing personal, right?)...but I’m the one trying to be objective...I researched the pricing online...I am going to speak with George Dearringer and get a firsthand lowdown on NewPro’s policies and procedures...and I am willing to revise my opinion and position in light of what I learn.

Some other folks are stuck on a point that may be moot...we’ll see. I have an open mind, either way, and you all know I’m more than willing to admit an error, either in facts or judgment, if I find I’ve made one.

Clem

Clem , I have confidence you’ll get the "scaper scoop" and be fair and objective.The thing that is interesting is the silence fron the company.I want to hear from them too.It just appears there has been ’a failure to communicate" on several levels.At the end of the day I think all scapers want as "non commissioned sales people" is a fair shake from any company they are trying to represent by pitching a product.If we do all the leg work and sell a client on a product its simply unfair for that company to sell around the person trying to promote them.

1999 Huh? Ah, yes, the Good Old Days. This is a lesson to all who give away free info. Always proof read your stuff. It seems to have a shelf life of 99 years.
That rough, and I do mean rough, formula that is in the Paperwork from past times for marking up Decorative Containers got turned around. My error. My philosophy has always been the cheaper the wholesale cost of the container, the higher the percentage markup. EX. A $10 basket (remember those?). I’d mark those up 100-200-300%. A pot that costs me 100 bucks? Anywhere from 50% to double and, yesterday I spoke with one ’scaper who is using 200% as a markup for all highend containers (You go boy)!! Why the differences? Well, how many pots on the job in total? One? 100? The quantity involved certainly has to be a factor. And, are you including the shipping charges in your marked up price (which I do not recommend) or listing them as a separate line item? Main thing is to keep in mind that markup percentages are not written in stone. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Plus, a one time sales item like a container is not the part of the quote I care the most about. Nice to have the money but it is just a one time thing and the monthly recurring revenue goes on and on and on and, hopefully ..on. Heck, a very famous industry pioneer and I were talking at a Meeting years ago. We both agreed that if we were just starting a plantscape company and wanted to grow the recurring, the most desirable part of the business quickly, we could give away the pots and plants if the recurring revenue and length of contract were high enough. We agreed that we would make out better, particularly if it were a "lease". I know this idea won’t sit well with most of you but...he is right.

Next to consider. When Pricing anything that is made up of various components, a little stealing from Peter to be able to get Paul is allowable and good business.

Just wrote 17 pages on Pricing for my Inner Circle Members. While doing so, I came across the turned around mistake in my old paperwork and I am glad for an opportunity to make a correction.

I am amazed that some of you still have me on your bookshelves. I am honored..and scared. Thank you. By the way, the plant in the corner could use a good dusting.

Bottom Line? If the formulas you are using work for you, keep them.Now,as I always say, Go get ’em, Tiger.

Hey Barb,

I still have the container book that you wrote. How’s THAT for dating myself?! Literature aimed specificially for our industry is like the bible and becomes "enshrined" (no candle-burning allowed, though). Interiorscape magazine is another one of those.

Julie

Barb, thank you for explaining. That makes a great deal of sense. As a new scaper, I’m inclined to go lower on containers for just the reason you mentioned.

Clem, I didn’t mean to shoot the messenger - I hope you didn’t feel that way. Just trying to make sense of it all.

any newws yet?

Yes, I had a very good conversation with George Dearringer the other day, but just haven’t had time yet to report back in detail. I promise something by the end of the week.

Clem

Okay, here’s my report on my "interview" with George Dearringer, chairman of the board at NewPro and an industry veteran of many years. George was nice enough to reach out to me when he got wind of the discussion here recently about his company’s online marketing site, and we had a very interesting half-hour-plus conversation last week. I promised to report back to the loyal ’Scaper Talk crowd with what I learned, so here goes...

When NewPro first drew the ire of some on this board last year, it was new to the online marketing game. George’s son, Jeremy, who posted here in the past before he left NewPro to start his own business (website optimization and such), helped get them up and running with some tweaks to a turnkey package they purchased from a firm that does e-commerce websites for some very high-profile Fortune 500 companies, among others. As George explained at the time, the site package was not completely customizable without paying an inordinate additional fee to the provider, and since it is a proprietary design (used by a lot of other online sellers, as you will learn later in this posting), NewPro was not able to do the changes themselves, so they went with it pretty much as they bought it.

One mistake that George admits was made at the inception of the site was to post net wholesale pricing on it. We discussed how other companies (ASI, etc.) handle this issue by posting list prices on their websites and/or catalog pricelists, and then giving various levels of dealer discounts to the trade, depending on whether the customer is a re-wholesaler, a retailer, an interiorscaper, etc. He told me that he wished he could put that genie back into its bottle and do something along those lines on the NewPro site, so that any issue about direct-selling at wholesale to end-users would have been easier to avoid.

George conceded that some small direct orders to non-trade entities slipped through and were filled initially as the company’s staff got used to the new system. For that reason, once this issue came to his attention, NewPro management decided that all internet sales inquiries from non-existing customers would be weeded out by Prish and the rest of the customer service staff at NewPro and referred to NewPro president Steve Sack to be personally investigated on a case by case basis BEFORE any merchandise would be shipped. George also noted that NewPro has a long history of selling to certain corporate entities (decorators, party planners, institutional customers, etc.) that dates back to the days of the dial telephone, and that the company would not cut loose those longtime, valued customers under any circumstances, even if some folks "in the trade" felt put off by those business relationships. I don’t blame him for that, as our company has similar relationships with non-florist customers to whom we extend our trade discount even though they don’t necessarily re-sell the goods.

George assured me that this policy and practice will serve to try to eliminate the possibility of an end-user doing an end-around any of his interiorscaper customers on a container order...of course, no system is 100% foolproof, so the occasional trickster may be able to circumvent the system somehow, but this should be the rare exception and not the rule going forward. I know firsthand how some people will go to great lengths to impersonate legit trade entities (i.e., the "society garden designers" and "cocktail-party wedding planners", to name just two) in order to purchase plants, flowers and other items from our wholesale nursery and greenhouses at a discount, so I can testify to their guile and nerve (or, as we called it in Jersey City, "big onions"!). Many of us have fallen victim to that kind of ploy at one time or another, so let’s not throw stones.

Also, I was mistaken when I assumed that the www.indoorflowerpots.com online retail site is owned and/or operated by NewPro (an assumption I made from the nearly identical designs of the two sites, which is a result of their having purchased the site packages from the same company). That site is a legitimate retail site owned by a consortium of four other companies not related in any way to NewPro, except that they purchase certain containers from NewPro, and NewPro does drop-ship some of Indoorflowerpots.com’s larger orders direct from its factory, so it serves only as a fulfillment house for its customer’s orders. George was adamant that NewPro is not in the direct-retail container business and is not looking to get into it, and has no plans to market directly to end-users at any price point.

NewPro enjoys a robust overseas business selling its containers to interiorscapers and decorators abroad, in large part due to its online presence and pricing displayed online. Password-protecting the pricing on the site, according to George, would negate that advantage, as it would adversely impact the company’s search optimization score with Yahoo, Google and the like. Nobody should have any objection to this practice, as long as NewPro sticks to its policy of qualifying prospective wholesale customers as legitimately being trade customers and not end-users.

The fact is, there are probably some out there who have never been a NewPro customer (even before this whole thing started to take on a life of its own here) and, in spite of anything anyone might say, probably never will be. If you ARE a NewPro customer and this still bothers you or gives you cause for concern, I would suggest that you call and ask to speak with George or with Steve and speak your mind as a customer...I guarantee they will listen to your concerns and address them as best they can. George Dearringer was very generous with his time, his information and his candor on this and other industry subjects when we spoke last week, and it’s a credit to him that he reached out to me before I even contacted him on the matter.

There it is. I make no judgments for you all, I’m just the reporter. I report, you decide (apologies to Fox News Channel).

Clem

"George Dearringer/NewPro - Re: Business Ethics 8/25/2007; 7:36:17 PM

Jerry,
The .002% is the percent of sales to companies outside of interiorscapers, florists, retail centers, and property managers, and other distributors. Our international business falls within the above group.
George "
-----------------------
Clem, this is a quote from the original thread.If this is considered robust sales then I am very confused.Read it carefully and let me know if you would risk any of your 99.998% sales for .002% that you are chasing.??? .I would also be curious to know who the four "consortium"companies are.

I guess I am thinking incorrectly on this. It may be clearer if the international sales figure were separated from the totals.I still am confused as to how much this actually means in terms of sales for Newpro. I would do just what they have done if it meant a large part of my sales.I like others just have a hard time with a supplier advertising pricing directly to custumers.Makes negotiating a sale pretty difficult.

I guess I am thinking incorrectly on this. It may be clearer if the international sales figure were separated from the totals.I still am confused as to how much this actually means in terms of sales for Newpro. I would do just what they have done if it meant a large part of my sales.I like others just have a hard time with a supplier advertising pricing directly to custumers.Makes negotiating a sale pretty difficult.

Jerry and everyone,

I am NOT NewPro’s representative, so I cannot speak for them on confidential trade matters in detail. I promised George I would use my best judgment and discretion in communicating to you what he and I discussed, and I will not betray that confidence. Suffice it to say that you will note that the date of that original post by George is nearly a year ago...give NewPro credit for optimizing their website’s search parameters and rankings to the point that they have enjoyed significant growth in their international markets from the figures he originally quoted, especially so in certain parts of the world where their products are "zebras" or at least more attractive to contractors and designers in those parts of the globe than what might be available of local origin or manufacture. Also, don’t forget that in many parts of the world, as well as in the USA, office furniture dealers and manufacturers feature plant containers as part of their office furniture/furnishings lines sold to companies of all sizes and kinds. Sometimes the containers are designed and manufactured specially for the larger dealers and they stick their logo on them, sometimes they are just sourced from a manufacturer such as NewPro and offered as an available option to the office furniture buyers who outfit their spaces with desks, partitions, chairs and the like.

As for the owners of the retail site, I can only say that they are involved in marketing multiple types of products unrelated to flower pots as well as flower pots. There are MANY such companies doing business online nowadays, sticking their toes in many bodies of commerce water to test the profitability of each. Sometimes, they make money selling widgets online, sometimes they lose money selling gizmos, and sometimes it’s flower pots.

Clem

Clem, thank you for your time and effort in reaching out and researching this issue. I, for one, am satisfied that NewPro is attempting to treat us ’scapers fairly.

I guess this is a sign of the times. Sell more! Sell more online!! Check out Sunshine’s website. SUNPROS.COM
I guess they recently began listing pricing for each of their containers, too. I don’t care if it is retail, wholesale or other. This is a site I used to send my customers to visit when perusing planter options. What if my customers look at this and begin to think I am sticking it to them with our delivered pricing. Of course we all realize it costs money to get a planter shipped, prepped and installed into an account, but my customer might question our final cost if they see these website prices.

thats sad!

lookks like a going out of businesss sale to me

didnt i just seee an add in interiorscape about meeting the new ceo at calscape

What is Sunshine’s "dealer discount" off the posted catalog list price (I haven’t bought anything from them if memory serves me)? Publishing list prices in catalogs has long been the industry standard for many high-end architectural planter manufacturers; what matters is the NET discounted dealer or wholesale price, not the list. Just as nobody (in their right mind) pays list price for a car, nobody in the trade pays list price for containers (or most anything else, for that matter). And that’s the key: the list price is used to (1) scare off end-users trying to buy at wholesale and (2) to give dealers/’scapers a guideline for establishing a selling price for those items.

Clem

"And that’s the key: the list price is used to (1) scare off end-users trying to buy at wholesale and (2) to give dealers/’scapers a guideline for establishing a selling price for those items.

Clem "

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Which one is newpro doing?

Jerry,

We already went over this ground, didn’t we? NewPro should have posted list pricing on its website initially, as even George Dearringer agrees. Actually, I should have said:

"(1) to educate end-users as to the price they should expect to pay through a dealer, and..."

So if an end-user went to the trouble to try an end-around by going to the manufacturer’s site, they would see a list price that would be in line with what a local ’scaper would likely quote for the same item. That would allay their fears that the ’scaper might be marking up prices unreasonably high and create a comfort zone for the buyer who would then feel much more at ease with the ’scaper’s pricing for the containers. That, in turn, would lead to Interiorscape Nirvana: a client who is happy to pay what the interiorscaper is proposing to charge for the product that the interiorscaper will be buying from the manufacturer or supplier. Win/win/win!

Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, sometimes Nirvana doesn’t pan out. Businesspeople make human decisions that sometimes aren’t the best possible ones for themselves or their clients. Live and learn.

Clem

why don’t old george just fix it now then?

Clem, you hit the nail about the two "key" points. But both were missed by this company.So unfortunate it can’t possibly be fixed.Its out there in cyber space and can never be retrieved.Right?

The real long term affects of this type of marketing may be extremely damaging to the scape biz.It won’t stop with containers me thinks.One day, perhaps soon,plants may be marketed the same way.Then what?

You can certainly get plants shipped via FedEx or UPS freight or overnight if you’re willing to pay extra for the shipping, but that would defeat the purpose of any savings on the selling price by the growers, no? I don’t think that will happen en masse until the day when LTL trucking is priced out of the business of hauling foliage. Then what? Who knows?

Sometimes, when a company is venturing into uncharted waters on a limited budget and with great uncertainty about the results, corners may be cut or priorities may be out of order or "penny wise/pound foolish" may be the order of the day. I’m not making any judgments about which applies here, only that I do understand that choices are made that may come back to bite you when you’re exploring new markets and such.

Clem

Hello, Ever heard of BotaniWipe??www.botaniwipe.com. !!!
Lots of opinions. Regardless of New Pros actions I believe on line marketing
is going to really become as powerful a tool as conventions are for continued
direct sales. There are so many cool business relations and networking
opportunities that can come from these market changes and time will tell how
the best way to spend money for furthering business. Are expensive
tradeshows w/ more vendors than customers going to continue or is
targeting individuals, businesses and customers going to prove just as
effective if not more to inform the public, business, professionals etc. with
ads and extensive website that are not only informative, but self serving. If
pricing on website is MSRP only, then it should not matter...the new age of
sales is on line and people are searching out the best deals they can.
Wholesale pricing should be retained and made available to only those w/
wholesale licenses and numbers. Easy enough. The few try hards are not
worth fretting over. If people want to purchase there own supplies, they will.
But their are plenty of others who are going to hire great professionals to do
it for them and if the cost and service is good... A few do- it- yourselfer’s
should not discourage all supply companies from being able to further
market their products and services. The days of complacency in the market
place and waiting for sales is not in the best interest of most companies any
more. Its not greed to market on line but rather a valuable tool that should
be taken advantaged of. Plus true retail prices make wholesale prices sound
great!