Some say nothing has changed in this industry.I disagree.We used to use baskets on accounts.Later there was almost nothing but round cylinders for containers and a very slim selection of colors and finishes. We never even saw a rhapis or a kentia on a job.It was all dracaena’s or arbs etc.And what the heck was a water machine. I actually saw little red wagons with 5 gallon pickle buckets full of water being pulled around an office space.And what was a topsider?
So it has changed over the years.But it must change even more now.I propose we have a meeting of the minds and talk about ways to change for the better going forward.I don’t mean a garden center or even a plant store[been there].There must be some creative things we can come up with that would serve our industry well.All we have done so far is whine about change.Now lets become "doer’s" and forget about the whining.
I am issueing a "challenge" to EVERYONE,not just our industry leaders, to put aside any self serving agenda’s and put together a conference dedicated solely to the "reinvention" of "our" industry.I suggest this conference be scheduled during the TPIE show this January but you can suggest any date..Perhaps even the TPIE folks could host this.I have a few people in mind that I think could chair a panel of folks at the conference well if they would be willing to step up and do it.But this should not be decided by a few or the largest companies but by all.Lets nominate people from all areas of our idustry and take a vote for who we would like to see on this "panel" and take it from there.We have until January to think and reflect and come up with ideas.
If you are interested in something like this send me an email and nomination for who you think would be good for this panel and lets try to get somthing positive going.If there is enough interest I am sure we can get something put together..Its time to stop talking about it and start doing!!

Idea One.
[I am suggesting this just to get things started.]

We need an industry standardized contract complete with a list of "What you need to know as a customer" things.

Great start, Jerry. I concur. Our contracts are pasted together over the years from other people’s contracts in various states, which is why the legalese sometimes isn’t kosher in certain jurisdictions. You probably don’t need an attorney to craft a valid contract for your state, but you should at least have one look it over and suggest corrections and check it for omissions that might make it vulnerable to legal challenges down the road.

Rick Wilcox has for many years shared contract forms with any and all comers, and he would be a good place to start. Perhaps we can set something up where contributors could upload things to a website where members can view or download stuff like contract forms, photos, etc. I’m not volunteering to do that, mind you...I already have enough volunteer jobs to keep me busy during the little free time I have outside of work, but I’d be willing to help out with it if some of you would like to get it up and running. There are certainly web-savvy people out there who frequent this forum and have benefited from the advice and feedback they have received or read on it...now it’s time to start giving back!

Clem

Did you know that Tuesday Morning [I am not sure they have stores everwhere so you may not know the name] started off by selling products on the roadside!There is much more to this idea I would love to talk about regarding this at a conference!!

I agree with the above but while web site chat rooms are a good place to get specific items identified, I really liked Jerry’s idea of a time and place meeting for everyone to get involved, say TPIE and or Calscape. Obviously, it would need to be scheduled when it would not conflict with Seminars, trade show etc but it can be done and I would hope that FNGLA and PIA would help by getting us a space.

Anyway, start by listing ideas for topics and who should moderate. So, we need a time, place, a group or one person to moderate and see the topics submitted get addressed by the group and that no one goes on too long (time limits please for each speaker/topic). I also suggest the session be taped so it could be posted somewhere so those who could not be there in person can hear it at a later date.

There is a much bigger picture/opportunity here than justcoming up with a standard contract. And, no whining or bemoaning the present allowed. All ideas to reinvent are welcome. There are no bad ideas just ones that are better than others for you and your situation. (Musta had too many cups of coffee this morning but you get the idea). Comments/Ideas please.

Hi Jerry-
I applaud your desire to issue a “challenge for everyone to get together and reinvent our industry.” I’ve been in this “funky corner of the horticultural industry” for over 30 years and am constantly thinking of ways to improve it. I can’t speak for industry leaders that you feel may have an agenda, but I’ve stepped up and volunteered with nothing more than a desire to raise the standards for all of us. I believe this to be true for the people I know in leadership roles.

I’m confident that PIA would support this effort anyway that it can at Calscape this year. It’s basically what we do at every conference – advance diversified revenue streams and product lines, train and encourage best practices and provide the resources for interiorscapers to succeed at any level. And if the current trends are any indication, this might not wait until January for TPIE.

So what are some of the obstacles? For one, if you have a great idea to make your business succeed, are you willing to share that with a competitor? Another is the average size of most interiorscapers is small – one and two person operations making it difficult to get away or afford to attend a meeting.

One of the first things I’d like to see change is spending an un-godly amount of time creating proposals and giving away detailed specifications. How can we shift the mind set of potential clients to PAY for this information? I had a repairman come out to look at one of our coolers that wasn’t working. Guess what? He charged me for the privilege of getting an estimate. What is wrong with interiorscapers that we don’t value our expertise and sell it, up front?

I urge you and anyone else reading this to attend an industry conference. I’m partial to Calscape but any will do – OFA, TPIE, PLANET – and see what is available. The benefits you gain from networking , sharing and learning from non-competing companies is as they say “priceless”.

Idea two:
Can you suggest a product or service that could be incorporated into the scaping business?

Jim has a great point.This is a huge issue. Want to add to you bottom line? Stop giving away a service that everyone else in the free world charges for. OK.How can we achieve this and get companies to cooperate and EVERONE benefit? Ideas anyone??

Barbs suggestion of just creating the list of topics and issues is exactly what we need to do. So on this thread lets just get the issues and goals listed and then lets see if TPIE and Calscape could include this in their program in some way.So does anyone out there have the name and number of who we need to talk to at these events?

On the issue of charging for creating specs/proposals, I concur with Jerry and Jim (and many, many other top pros in this biz) that we need to "change" and "evolve" into a more professional sector of the green industry and not give away our work before we even make the sale!

How do we do this and get everyone (lowballers included) on board? Short of legislation or public shaming of the violators, I’m not sure how we can. If we had a licensing requirement that made us all bonafide "professionals" (like Landscape Architects are), then our code of professional ethics and conduct or best practices would stipulate that we bill for all design/specification work irrespective of whether we got the job or not (i.e., the design/spec work is one "phase" of the job, the installation is another, and the maintenance is yet another). But we don’t have that at the moment, so what to do?

Because there are so many fly-by-night operations in the landscaping trade (exterior and interior), there’s not much hope of herding everyone into line on this issue. Lowballers will still see it as an opportunity to get a "competitive advantage" over their counterparts by giving away "free design services".

We have the moral high ground here, folks, but that doesn’t count for much when going to the bank.

Clem

Codo’s to Clem, Barb & all others. Logic & reason always has a strong and faithful following. Please count me in to contribute.

Jerry brought up a point that I’ve been pouring over for such a long time. How can we incorporate our plant business with something else. The logical choice would be janitorial service but I can tell you right now I am not going to clean offices and wipe out other people’s urinals. Ain’t happ’nin!!! But what else is needed that would make "our" company more unique and secure the deal. I’m afraid I do not know.

Reinventing the company at my age would take some work and deep thought but I’m game for most anything. In my area, we are saturated with nurseries, plants on corners so opening a storefront would be the kiss of death coming sooner than later.

I have people to keep in jobs. They work hard and it’s up to me to keep merrily rolling along. But when your cold calls go to voice mail, your email gets deleted, networking has become a joke, you get kicked out of an office for solicitation......the only thing we can do is hang on as tight as we can to our current clients and hope they are the ones not getting hurt by the economy and will add plants later on. We can’t count on our property mgmt to bring us along when they move - they are losing THEIR jobs.

Yall see the time?? Well, my mouth gets overloaded about this time each night so while I was on a roll I made it a good one.

Who here in Atlanta wants to form a nest of thoughts? Girls gotta make a living and I can’t wear 5" heels anymore. (ducking out on that one)

Carol

How about associating our industry with a major charity organization such as
the Susan Komen fight for breast cancer or the march of dimes?

What if the big change in our industry came from the people behind it?

We are always focussing on our products and services and expect or wish we
could see a change or evolution through the years.
Yes, the containers have definitely evolved in style, design and material.
The plants? Well, beside a few new varieties including the commercialization
of orchids, most of them are the same and will always be the same. They are
beautiful today just like they were beautiful in the 70’s. There is certainly a
change in the way we put them together.
The service? Hopefully we have become more professional. Some technology
has evolved and it seems that the trend is leading towards less service and
more profit. (not sure if that’s a gain)
Our marketing? I think the biggest change was when we discovered plants
were actually beneficial to our indoor environment. Thanks to GPGB and its
predecessors for promoting the issue.

So what’s left is US, the horticulturists. (Or are we still the plant guys?)
What if WE were what has really changed?
What if we were seen as good and generous guys?
What if our industry came in the mind of those building managers every time
they saw the pink ribbon?
Wouldn’t that be a positive change?
One that would benefit us and a greater cause.

Just a thought.

Carol, I’m with you on the "cleaning thing", but we were dragged kicking and screaming into cleaning artificial plants. We have even added applying fire retardant to them and to holiday decorations. To many people it is not an issue, but to hospitals and retirement homes, it is a viable service.

It’s relatively easy money, if you are willing to do it. Include the cleaning as part of your live plant service. Set it up to be done automatically quarterly, or whatever term would be appropriate, rather than an "on call" basis. Although we have our installation department do it between plant jobs, if enough business is generated, it would be wise to hire someone part-time to do just that, rather than waste the skills of your horticultural people.

As far as the fire retardant, make them aware that most fire retardants need to be reapplied after the item is heavily washed...thus supplying more income to yourself!

It’s not my favorite part of our business, but it’s a nice supplement to what we do.

Julie

The Coordinator of Trade Show Activities for FNGLA (TPIE) is Jessica Schaaf. 800-375-3642 She is probably putting together the short courses now so this would be a good time to make contact.

One important aspect of reinventing is our current supply chain of plants,containers and associated products.They need to be involved in this.Perhaps they are looking for ways to reinvent as well.I personally don’t think we need to be in janitorial,window washing or anything like that.We need to first be involved in something more closely related.Janitorial is not reinventing ,its just starting another business.I think we need to think more along the lines of new ideas and ways to market the add on type of things.Another company did the air freshner type add on and thats not a bad idea but not related enough to what we do for me.We need our suppliers to jump in and be creative with this and add to their business as well.If they can make a container or grow a plant or stock a warehouse of supplies then they can do other things too.So if any of you are watching this come on in.

Sandy, thanks for the info. I just got off the phone with Linda Reindl of TPIE and they are meeting next week to put programs together.The idea of a panel and dicusssion group on reinventing was well recieved and she feels it is a great idea.I encourage all to come up with topics and ideas for this meeting and submit them to Linda Reindl.Sandy has the phone number on her post.We also need four or five moderators for this panel to sort ideas into groups and keep the discussion moving along.If any of you feel you would like to volunteer or nominate someone to be on this panel please do it now and we can begin to get prepared.I hope this grows legs and runs so we can take action and not just talk. Let’s become "doers" !!!

I would like to nominate David Lemel of Texas Tropical Plants to be a panel member if we can get on TPIE"s program .I have spoken to David and he is willing to do this.Can I get a second on this nomination?

What of instead of just selling plants or interior plantscaping , we are selling stressless environments for employee/client/customer’s well being? Making an industry of employee moral boosters. Plants, Waterfeatures, green walls, all things calming and stress reducing? What could we add to this list of things?

This is exciting stuff! I am on board and would like to participate any way I can.
I think something at our National Meetings is a great idea. I would love to see some industry standards. Having some of the Certifications and Affiliations that are available helps to raise us to a more professional level.

What can we do at the grassroots level( no pun intended)to changs the perception of our industry?
How do we become indispensible?

We’ve also spoken to Mary Golden at PIA so expect some word about a possibility of something happening at Calscape. The following is a list of other Diversifications that most/some companies have tried over the years. Some have been winners (Holiday) and some not so much. Use this as your starting point and, then, post other options no matter how crazy they may seem. It’s a start.

Holiday
Cut Florals weeekly, Monthly, Seasonally
Exterior Containers, Seasonally/Year Round
Other Holiday
Events
Green Roofs
Exterior Care (?)
Garden Centers
Retail Plants/Gifts
Fruit Basket Delivery
Air Treatments
Art Work Sales or Leasing
Gift Baskets
Tenant Gifts (for Property Managers to give new tenants/realtors to give new Home Buyers
One Time Plant Doctor Housecalls etc
Janitorial (uggh)

Now, some of these have worked for Most, some have worked for Some, they are all adjuncts to our core business. Put on your thinking caps and add to the list please. And remember, no idea is a bad one or too off the wall. Barb

This is good stuff, everybody!

I usually default to "Devil’s Advocate" status (killjoy?), so here goes:

Wendy, which people/companies in our industry would benefit the most from taking courses to become certified as interiorscape professionals? Answer: the ones who need it the most, but who probably will never do it. That’s the problem.

There is a possibility that we could grow a movement to put peer pressure on these folks by raising our standards so high that they will stick out like sore thumbs among us, but there will always be a market for cheap, so don’t hold out too much hope for changing the world entirely. It’s worth a shot, though.

Clem

Clem, refer to Barbs last sentence.We don’t need to look nor find answers on this thread but we will be able to throw everything out there and sort through it later.Thats what I am counting on you for!!Luv ya man!!

Diversification is great but let’s not forget what we do; we are interiorscapers.
We are not florists, we are not landscapers and we are certainly not janitors.
It takes a lot more than putting peonies in a vase to become a florist or
planting pansies in a container to become a landscaper.
So if one is looking at expending, one must get the proper training first.
Otherwise you are going to hurt your core business and hurt the industry you
are getting into.
And I can already see that happening. I just came back from a brand new
building where a client moved in. The plants in the lobby look awful, the
design is terrible. The job wasn’t done by an interiorscaper, it was done by
the landscaper who got the outdoor contract and probably thought that
diversifying would be good for his business.
Well, the result is a total failure: he hurt himself by getting into something he
thought would be easy money AND he hurts our industry by doing a poor job
and making all of us look bad.
Here is what I suggest: let’s create a network of industry related businesses.
Imagine having a preferred relationship with let’s say, a florist and a
landscaper.
Whenever you sell a job and the client is interested in additional services, you
use these companies as contractors. They do the job and they charge you a
contractor’s fee. You can then mark up their fee 10 or 20% to your client.
In the end the client is happy because he gets only one vendor to deal with
and you are happy because you were able to give you client what he wanted
without having to change profession. The key is to find reliable contractors.

And may be that’s what could be done on a national level.

David, you got my vote. Get to work!!!

Forgot to mention but it goes without saying that, we could also pick up
business that way because our network partners would also use us as
contractors.

Also I really like Linnea’s idea of marketing our plants and services as soothing,
calming and stress reducing.

This is the most interesting thread for a while. I like most of the ideas and suggestions. We will be going to Calscape this year and would love to participate in a forum that looks for positive change in expanding our revenue stream and especially in the area of professionalism and setting standards in plant care and serrvice standards.

The industry may have been started by a couple of hippies, but we are all grown up now, still love what we do but we are now a legitemate business. It is essential for our continued success to re-evaluate the way we do things.

Peter

Thank you for nominating me as a panel member/moderator. Patrice, thanks for seconding my nomination. Now lets get to work! After speaking with Jerry, I became excited thinking of the numerous brainstorming oportunities this will create. More importantly, by interfacing with each other at Calscape and TPIE, we accomplish several things.
First, we experience the brotha/sistahood of our industry by meeting face to face. Second, we support the organizations who produce these important shows. Third, with Jerry’s vision in mind, we move past stagnation and motivate each other with fresh ideas and "outside the box" thinking. Count me in. I plan to attend both Calscape and TPIE. As I mentioned to Jerry, now we need to attract attention to our group so we have a diverse sampling from every size company and region. We could be a Calscape or TPIE small money sponsor and get the ad space included with sponsorship. This way we are contributing to the success of each show and getting the word out that we are legit and worth checking out.. I know for a fact Calscape is searching for sponsors right now. A meeting room would be relatively easy to book. Should we shoot for Calscape as our initial meeting or wait til TPIE?

Great thread Jerry!

I’m lways for anything that helps GROW the industry and raises the bar on professionalism, so count me in. I’ll help the cause in any way I can.

I think David’s suggestion of getting the ball rolling at CalScape is a very good one. Although Time flies and It’ll be January before we know it, there’s no time like the present... and fact of the matter is we need to get things going NOW!

Steve

Although I started the thread,it is really Jeff’s editorial that got this started. I don’t always see eye to eye with Jeff but he is right about doing the same thing we have always done and expecting different results[insanity].Someone here in Dallas said it’s like sitting in front of a stove and saying"give me heat and I will give you wood".We have got to get some wood together before we can get the fire started.

I will mention this piece of"wood" again for consideration.We need to fully educate our customers on what they can expect and what they deserve from a plant service.Almost none know how we arrive at a price or what they are actually paying for and how it is broken out and this leads to abuse by unethical companies.We need a comprehensive brochure on this so we can educate our customer and keep them from being preyed on by a company who replaces a Rhapis palm with an Amate and calls it even.This along with many other unethical abuses happens over and over and "dumbs down" our service.

I would like this idea to be put on the table.It is not a diversification idea and we need plenty of those but I think it is important.

I absolutely think that exterior containerscaping is a very do-able and compatible new revenue source...we’re horticulturists, after all, not "interior horticulturists"...the same principles apply to both interior and exterior, it’s just a matter of adjusting your approach to manage the different conditions you’ll come across on each job (just like interiors!). We sometimes overlook the most obvious new opportunities just because some other contractor is already doing it...well, do it better and sell that!

And you don’t have to BE a florist to SELL floral...just as you don’t have to GROW orchids and bromeliads to SELL rotational color. Find a local florist to partner with and add weekly floral to your product line. This is another "natural" add-on sale to develop as an integral part of your business. You don’t need to go to floral design school to sell floral arrangements!

Clem

Clem is right, you don’t need to be a florist you just have to sub it out etc. Its not always about what you can "do" but what other products and services you can provide to your same client base. They need it and you can provide it and you will make sure to do so professionally, in a timely fashion and at a fair price. Now, if you have that skill, do it. If not, find someone who does and sub it out. Your job then, for which you are compensated, is to manage and ensure good results.
A first meeting at CAlscape is doable but wherever and whenever, this must not turn into a B....Session.

OK, the list is written above. What else can YOU add???

Barb, thank you and you are right.We need topics and possibilities and not the full dicussion here right now.With Barbs help I have a call in to Calscape to see if we can start there.David, thank you for volunteering.However,I may have the final say in choosing of panel members and that is as it should be. But I would still like to see some others nominated for this and the folks at Calscape and TPIE can approve or not.

Now, back to topic ideas.Who can suggest another?

OOPPS,,,,correction

I may NOT have the final say in panel members and that is as it should be.

Barb may have touched on this one in her list (one-time plant doctor housecalls), but let’s take it a bit further...horticultural consulting. If you are a trained/experienced horticulturist knowledgeable in both interior and exterior, including being a licensed pesticide applicator with knowledge about insects, mites, diseases, etc., you can hire yourself out as an expert to consult with clients who have problems/questions/ideas about their landscaping/interiorscaping and can’t get straight answers from the people they’re paying now. You come in as the expert and maybe the "white knight" and who knows? Maybe it turns into a new account for some part of your business, but at least you are developing a rep as the area’s "answer man/woman" on all things horticultural. For a nice fee, of course.

Clem

OH, Good one Clem!

I spoke with Mary Golden from Calscape.We have begun looking at having this on Wednesday just before the welcome party on the opening day.All is not finalized but it looks like we will be able to get this done.Now we are looking for a few good people to volunteer their help.I have heard from David Lemel to panel and Steve Foster to help organize. Thanks guys! Now we need a couple more people who will be going to Calscape to lend a hand.

Jerry,
I plan on attending Calscape and I’m willing to lend a hand in any way that I can. Let me know how I can help.

Wendy

Hi Jerry and all who have commented on this thread,

This is Carol Peterson Webber from the Plantscape Industry Alliance (PIA) and my own interiorscape company, Plant Parenthood.

As the Calscape Expo Program chair, I am delighted that we are going to start this open forum of discussion at Calscape this year. It has worked out perfectly, as we had this one slot to fill and there you were!! I think that being on Wednesday, prior to the Welcome Party, it is going to set the tone for a fabulous conference. We have built this years program around many new and inovative ideas, so this discussion of professionalism in our industry is a perfect lead in. All the years that I have been volunteering my time, first at Cipa, the California Interior Plantscape Assn. and now at PIA, a national association, coordinating local education programs for our industry, I always felt that we needed an on going forum of education so that we would set ourselves apart from so many other vendors that our clients work with. I am thrilled that you all are feeling the way I have for years and now we can come together and move forward, in this economic atmosphere or any one that we are thrown into. Years and years ago, Matthew Gardner and I started some local programs and we called it "Tech Talk" and we brought in local people , like Alan Secrest, who originally brought Natural Springs to the market place. Matthew and I were so happy that our little idea, cookie cuttered into first a statewide program and then into a national program, that, by the way, was sold out in Boston this year.

I am looking forward to seeing my old friends, and meeting new ones this year at this, "TOWN HALL MEETING". Lets make this year, 2009, a great Calscape for our industry.

That’s great news Carol! Now lets get down to the wood chopping.I would like to see everyone reach out to all they know associated with our industry,even their competiors, and ask for their input and participation.Mary Golden mentioned having a survey sent to all and getting ideas from anyone willing to step up.My fellow scapers,now is the time to act.Make plans to attend Calscape and TPIE and if you can’t attend you can still contribute.Come up with topics and ideas you would like to see discussed and email them to Carol or Mary or me .I will do everything I can to see that ALL have a voice.You have a chance to make a difference. TAKE IT!!

Fantastic News!!!
Thank you Carol! And Thank you Jerry Shipe!
Let’s make big things happen!
Jerry, I’m sharpening my axe!
Have a great weekend everyone!
David

I was out of town over the weekend and ended up visiting a mall for some
shopping.
There was a lot of plants in that mall and 75% were "okay" but the rest looked
like they needed help or were beyond help.
Tall palms full of webs and dust, wilted plants, ugly trimming (1-14" jc bush
was so trimmed, it literally looked like a compacta!), plants that should have
been replaced 3 months ago, many plants showing 50 % of their grow pots...

Shame, shame, shame...

As long as we have companies allowing this kind of embarrassment to
happen, we will not see our industry being rewarded with wider use of plants.
And that’s exactly why malls use less and less of them.
They may look great when new but if they are maintained so poorly, they end
up being an eye sore instead of beautifying the space.

We must find a way to eliminate these companies by systematically go after
their business.
Unfortunately it’s often the city’s largest and leading scapers that maintain
those publics spaces and malls.

This is in my opinion the #1 problem this industry faces.
Too many of us provide poor services.
It comes before becoming green, raising our fees and or reinventing
ourselves.
It’s simply about doing a good job.

Just a word of caution. I, too, have seen some abominable plant jobs out there. Here’s the rub. The Mall I saw and the restaurant, both had canceled their professional plant service and had gone "in house" to, and I quote, "to save money". In fact, one of the Mall people told me that as plants die, their cleaning crew was now watering, they were being removed permanently. Now some might think that these accounts are ripe for one of the good guys (you) to take over. Not the case. With major anchors leaving and restaurants giving out coupons for money off, these jobs have dissappeared off our radar. In fact, one Mall only turns on their lighting in the main area EVERY OTHER DAY!!In other instances, clients have cut back their $$ but still expect the interioplantscaper to perform the same work for less pay. Result? Lower quality. Of course, we should never agree to cut our service if it results in poor results, but for many that is the situation. Ah, if only we could give 110% for only 50 cents on the dollar........One of my fantasies (no, not that one), is to someday have a company that does perfect work no matter what the cost, clients that sing my praises and to do it all for nothing. And, that, Virginia, is why they call them Fantasies.

Along the lines of what Barb described about the local mall, our local A&P supermarket in NJ has just recently "renovated" (again) to try to lure more shoppers, especially since a competing chain will be opening up just a mile or so up the highway in a few months. The "renovation" consists mainly of painting the ceiling of this cavernous, airplane-hanger-like building BLACK, and turning off most of the lights in the store, giving it that highly desirable "going out of business" look. In the process, their floral/plant department has begun to slide into the abyss, with the average shelf life of the live plants now down to about a week as a result of the lack of any ambient lighting (just a small strip of fluorescent lamps above the back of the display shelving illuminates the plants). In the process of "reinventing" themselves and "going green" (that’s the other P. R. ballyhoo that the store’s ads are now claiming), they are alienating customers further (bad enough their prices are high and their customer service is horrible there) by making the shopping experience colder and less inviting than before.

Businesses in general need to take a look at the cost/benefit ratios of saving $$$ vs. turning off their customers. There must be better ways of holding costs in check than turning busy retail stores into dark alleys.

Clem

I bid on our local mall a while back, and there was no way I could do a decent job for what they were willing to spend. And that was BEFORE the economy tanked - I’m sure it’s gotten worse. They used to be open early in the morning for mall-walkers, now they don’t open the doors at all until 8:30.

We recently received an unsolicited request from a property management company I’d never dealt with nor heard of to do a proposal for interior plant service at a small indoor mall in an urban location in our service area. I stopped by and did the walkthrough unescorted (everything was in plain sight, with the exception of two sad-looking office plants in the management offices) and submitted our proposal via e-mail before the deadline (which was the following Monday...I got the RFP on the previous Friday). Cue: crickets chirping...

The plants were mostly in pretty good shape, aside from a decided leaning of the large Ficus trees that made them look as if they had served on the deck of a cruise ship in heavy weather. There was one tree that was hosting a family reunion of a large clan of scale insects, but it looked pretty skimpy anyway and would need to be replaced, and it was isolated enough from the rest of the plants not to be an immediate threat to their well-being. The odd thing was that there are skylights all down the center of the mall corridors, but very few trees were actually sited under the skylights, or even near them...the vast majority were leaning against the walls opposite the occupied storefronts, acting as camouflage for the high vacancy rate in the mall. They seemed to have gotten accustomed to the lower light levels, though, and aside from that pronounced tilt off the vertical, they just needed some pruning for shape and proportion.

I never was able to get a response, a "thanks but no thanks", or "your bid was too rich for our currently-in-need-of-stimulus blood", or any acknowledgment whatsoever from the mall management (since I had e-mailed the bid, all they needed to do was click "Reply" and type one or two short sentences, and at least I’d know where we stood). The secretary did tell me that they had received the bid and were considering it along with others, but that’s the end of the story.

Bottom line: there’s NEVER any excuse for such violations of simple, common business etiquette. Especially if you’re looking for creative ways to help hold down costs, it pays to be nice, or at least civil, when YOU are the one requesting bids for work at your facility. I doubt that there are hordes of other contractors knocking down their doors to get their business (due to the location/demographic/size of the job), so it would behoove them to be a little more cordial and welcoming to potential vendors in this economic climate.

Clem

We still need reinvention ideas.I think the men here seem to be the most creative in coming up with ideas[this should get fun]

How about this one.The White house has planted a vegetable garden this year. So why not a vege garden for your customers patio,rooftop garden,etc. I am kind of fond of squash blooms myself!

Jerry,
On the note of a vegetable garden, I actually have started an herb garden for one of my residential clients that has a cook on hand. They are looking forward to picking fresh herbs to cook with. I plan on getting the word out to my other residential clients that we are now providing that service.

Waiting for more good ideas.

My suggestion for "reinvenitng" the business is to bring back the BIG plant.

In order to be competitive, we always use 10 and 14" material. Something that the customer can easily go out and source themselves.

These would be a new and interesting look, something that they can’t get at home depot.

By providing larger plants that need to be delivered and installed by professionals, and that have "financial & aesthetic consequences" if they die.

Nobody will miss the mass cane in the corner. But if the 10’ Rhaphis in the lobby starts to look bad....

We can then revive the percieved value of our service.


JK

Okay, this is good brainstorming fodder, John...taking your "BIG is BEST" mantra one baby step further, why not place the emphasis on COMBINATION planters (VERY big in the garden center trade at the moment)...not just A tree in a pot, but a tree with an interesting/colorful underplanting, even in smaller sized containers. Not just a Mass Cane in the corner, but a Mass Cane with 4" Bromeliads and 6" Pothos around the rim of the planter...gives us a bigger container sale by a few inches in diameter (a Good Thing) as well as add-on greens and color rotation potential.

Our slogan could be "no plant left alone" or something along those lines...

Clem

"Okay, this is good brainstorming fodder, John...taking your "BIG is BEST" mantra one baby step further, why not place the emphasis on COMBINATION planters (VERY big in the garden center trade at the moment)...not just A tree in a pot, but a tree with an interesting/colorful underplanting, even in smaller sized containers. Not just a Mass Cane in the corner, but a Mass Cane with 4" Bromeliads and 6" Pothos around the rim of the planter"

This isn’t reinventing. That is what we used to do before the big box stores ate into this industry and the mom and pops decided that a office plant in a container shouldn’t cost more than $45.00 installed. This is what was done before a $6.00 plastic planter was the norm instead of a $85.00 fibreglass planter. Those days are gone for the bread and butter jobs

People generally don’t care about the variety of plant. For the most part a planter is a planter is a planter unless you get into the very high end. A picture of an award winning atria planting of 2009 looks just like the award winning planting of 1980. The reinvention in our industry has to be very bold because a pot is a pot is a pot and an Areca palm is the same as a Kentia which is the same as a Fishtail to the general public.

The suggestions that Barb has given all work but they are all things that we have done back in the 70’s and 80’s.

The industry had a reinvention in the 70’s when clay pots gave way to fibreglass in multitudes of styles and colours. When macremae hanging planters gave way to acrylic bowls. New plant varieties with exotic looks were introduced to the public that had never been used in interiors previously.

Everyone is looking for that "Magic Hook" that will be the next big thing but I am not so sure it is going to be in this industry.

I am not being a pessimist but just a realist and have already moved on to greener pastures years ago when it became apparent where this industry was headed.

I don’t believe in "magic". I also don’t believe in quick fixes or "the next big thing", because the next big thing quickly becomes the next forgotten thing.

This business is built on the foundation of client/vendor relationships and professional expertise. That’s what sells the kind of long-term accounts we depend on for recurring income, not just a one-shot sale. We also need to emphasize service over product...anyone can provide plants and pots, in fact the client really doesn’t even need a vendor to BUY stuff, they can do it at the local home center or garden center...and service depends on know-how and the ability to communicate it and deliver it to the client.

"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."...that’s a line from Proverbs that should serve as sufficient counsel for businesspeople who may stray from the path of solid management practices in search of that "next big thing" or "magic hook", as Dan puts it. Stay true to what got us this far, and just add "enhancements" along the way. And always maintain your level of professionalism and great communication and customer care. That’s what service industries are all about when you boil it down to the essence.

Clem

That is exactly my sentiment, Clem. We as an industry have to do things better. This includes better proposals, nicer uniforms, better equipment, clean plants, superior training, better staff retention. Showing up when you promised, dress appropriate for a business meeting.

One of the keys to our success is the type of person we hire. We like people with some horticultural experience but we end up hiring people with a good attitude, a sunny disposition, good to great personalities and communication skills. Then they will work with a trainer for a full month before they are let loose.

Weekly meetings and follow up training are conducted every Friday where everyone has a chance to reconnect with their co workers. This makes them feel as part of a larger team and they understand that we support them.

Our recurring revenue is the most important asset of our company and we treat the service aspect not to be taken lightly. This is what sets us apart. Every one of our competitors can buy the same plants, the same planters, create beautiful designs but we will beat them everytime in the service aspect.

That is how you reinvent your own business, know your strengths, know your competitors weaknesses and the money will flow your way.

I’m with you guys. I am often thinking of other ways to do business or additional
services and products but focussing on our core business and improving service
is to me the key to our success.

I agree about not losing focus on the core business. There is nothing wrong with adding product lines and evolving, but never lose sight of your main business.

Remember Sears - how they bought Discover Card, and an insurance company, and a rental care company, and a few others, citing corporate synergy? That was the business model in the 1980’s. They spent the next decade or so unwinding and selling off all of those businesses, and are barely hanging in there with just the retail part now.

I’m not trying to pop anybody’s balloon, just reminding people to keep a tether on said balloon!

I.m not saying that big plants (and under plantings) are new, they just haven’t been around for a while due to competitive pressures (primarily).

Also, the beauty of digal imaging is you can get the idea to the next level of decision makers without an outright no.

By starting to spec larger stuff we can avoid the big box look.

Compare a large planting like clem mentioned. Say a 24" margi with undeplantings. All said, Cost the client maybe 3k or 4k.

Compare that to the price they pay for artwork and its a fraction of the cost and has a larger impact.

And again, it takes a service to provide and maintain this stuff. They can’t do it by themselves.

JK

John, I think you are right about us specializing in unique products.
Large plants are unique to our industry but not always easy to use because of
what they are: large. (unless we are as good as you are to get jobs like you
just did... ; )
But 14 and 17 specimen plant are also one of our exclusivity.
Also containers; it’s pretty much impossible to buy "our" containers through
retail, unless you go online and pay retail (in most cases). I know of one
building manager who manages to buy her "California ceramic containers"
and pays wholesale prices, but I don’t think that it is a trend. Just like I rarely
see businesses (other than small start up) go buy their plants at Home Depot.
But that’s my market and i understand that it differs from State to State.

But I agree, we definitely need to try carrying exclusive products and create
unique design to make ourselves indispensable or at least attractive.

I’m thinking large multi stem orchids, unusual bromeliads, unique ferns,
stump canes rather than typical 5432, tree form reflexas. Natal Mahogany’s
make really nice stand out plants. Marginata Character rather than staggered.
Algerian ivies instead of GP’s. More Rhapys, more Kentias, more Aralias (I
never use them, but I should)

What else is there, beautiful, unique and available to us?

And why are we always going back to the boring mass canes, silver bays, jc’s.
and Gp’s?
We get complacent, uncreative, boring........DEAD!
We do what’s easy and cheap and use low replacement material. We think
money before we think design. (we need to, to a certain measure)

Today you can buy flowers at Kroger or you can buy them at the flower shop.
What’s the difference at the shop? Quality and design.
LET’S MAKE SURE THAT NURSERIES AND BIG BOX STORES DON’T BECOME TO
US WHAT KROGER AND THE GROCERY STORES BECAME TO THE FLOWER
SHOPS.
It happened because flower shops started thinking price rather than design.
We can change and avoid all that. It ’s easy. It’s nothing new.
It’s right here in front of us.

We need to become better designers.

Clem hit the nail on the head-
"This business is built on the foundation of client/vendor relationships and professional expertise. That’s what service industries are all about when you boil it down to the essence."
I recently read the book "A Complaint is a Gift"(good read, very helpful) about the success of Zappos.com. The basic premise is that customer complaints are valuable feedback that can help strengthen products, service and market focus.
My question is "what are some of your legitimate customer complaints and how can we use this vital information to improve our industry.

Jerry, I think this is a creative way to get ideas out, so I am picking up your guantlet and throwing it back over to the Boy’s side of the fence.

Patrice you just hit the nail on the head. We need to become better designers. Hence my comment about award winners of today look just like award winners of 1975. But we have to remember that coming up with this new exotic design is going to be costly, which requires an upscale clientèle and that clientèle has largely evaporated. This type of planting was popular in large office atriums, shopping malls etc. These just are not being built right now and any that are renovated usually remove the plantings to make more rentable space. We are now competing with technology such as water features, lighting and art. (maybe we should be combining this with our product) All of which give the whizz bang effect without nearly as high a monthly maintenance cost. Our industries past history has shown that an installation that looks great when new almost always goes downhill and becomes a liability. I see this every day and so do our potential clients. As an industry we write our contracts to limit our replacement liability and I have very seldom seen replacements that match what was originally installed even when we take responsibility. (BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF)

Clem is right that a service company is built on the foundation of client/vendor relationships and professional expertise.

Unfortunately as an industry we have lacked in both new design and professional expertise. And with the newer ways of doing business client/vendor relationships are beginning to mean less then the cost of service.

Best thread I’ve seen in years....Lots of great input. I like Jerry’s Idea One:
Educating customers and the plant consuming general public.
Our potential customers are getting sold a bunch of bs from unscrupulous so called, "interiorscapers", who flash their slick brochures and promise plant replacements that take months to happen ,if at all. Plus, ridiculous contract clauses that negate them from any responsibilty for their minimal service. I see our industry getting another black eye everytime I hear a client tell of all the different "techs" paraded thru their office space to splash and dash what they can locate....I’m sick of it and calling them out. That gets attention anyway and gets people to thinking. ( So, greedy slackers, clean up your act...or don’t - I’ll just take the account away from you and all the residual sales ...) Desperate times call for desperate measures. Ok, that’s my B session as Barb would call it. I’m done. I will help in any way I can and plan to be at Calscape. I’ve "re-invented" myself numerous times during the 29 years in this business, and somehow manage to survive and keep things interesting and profitable. Believe it or not, there are a half dozen or so scapers that get together in my town on a monthly basis and discuss local and industry issues. These meetings have proven to be beneficial in many ways to all of us. I’ll contact them regarding support for these new discussions you all have brought up. I also like the idea of incorporating our current supply chain of plants,containers and associated product vendors. They are crucial to our survival and can hop on the idea train too. I’ll email and call the ones I use and send them in this direction.

Hi,

Robbin, I agree with you, best thread in a long time.
Dan, I think that there are some awesome designers out there doing very different work and I know we are going to see some of that at the Awards Banquet at Calscape. We have new and exciting cagegories that people are entering and I hope you will see what they are doing. Dan, I hope if you aren’t coming to Calscape that you will look up the photos on the website after the fact. I personaly didn’t see any living walls or roof gardens in 1975, of course I wasn’t an interiorscaper yet, but I was always into plants. I honestly do not remember seeing anything like that. I think John Mini and McCrae Anderson do work that could not have been executed in 1975. I think Shane Pliska and Jim Mumford are leading the pack in these newer areas. I think that those interiorscapers and others I did not mention, are leading the field of a certain reinvention.

Some of us smaller companies would be proud to follow in their footsteps.

Great discussion all.

Patrice, I like the idea of holding "us" to high standards and somehow "certifying" those commit to a strict code of ethics.

That’s something that I can help with and already have all the pieces in place to execute it.

Will talk more about it with Jerry since this is his baby.

SF

Dan,Patrice,Robin and others, You have all hit on a real sore spot with me. Replacing plants[if at all] with much lessor plants than in the specs . ITS STEALING...not only from the client but from all of us who work hard to maintain the integrity of our business and quality of our work.We absolutly MUST have an organized effort by someone like Steve Foster to put together a program that says "This is who we are and this is what we stand for"and actually put some teeth into it when ethics or standards are not met and have a proceedure to either correct the behavior or be asked to leave the group.The Bar Assoc. does this with lawyers and other groups have similar requirements of ethics and standards too. Why not us? . This could be a virtually free thing to those who would pledge to meet these standards.Oh, you say company XYZ does not want to pledge?? Well what a great advantage to their competitor that WILL pledge.What they would be saying is they have no intention of having any ethics or standards.What exuse would they have for not participating.Steve Foster already has the nuts and bolts in place to do just this. We need to come together and REINVENT our industry commitment ethics and standards and actully have a system in place to deal with the companies who will not bring professionalism back for the good of us all.

I have alredy talked with Steve about this and I think this is such a ’DOER" thing that we can’t afford not to act.So lets stop talking about this "professionalism" thing as we have done for the last 20 or more years and become DOERS and make it more than just some words. I encourage everyone who would like to see something done contact Steve,and anyone else who you think would be an asset in actually doing something.

Ok Steve, I have volunteered you. Are you willing ot take this on?

Just thought of something else. This type of organization could be the tool that brings everyone to the point that we can actually charge for design work instead of giving it away.If we all band together we will be able to do things differently and everyone benefit!

Good stuff, everybody!

Patrice, one of the reasons why we don’t use some more interesting or different varieties of plants is that there are some major pest issues with a lot of them, especially with respect to mites. Aralias, certain palms, and ivies are the main culprits. Sure, I’d love to use variegated Algerian Ivy more, but from past experience I know that I’ll have serious mite issues in summertime when the A/C is turned way down on weekends and the sun shines brightly through those windows where the Algerian Ivy hangs. There are lots of Aralias (roseleaf, Balfour, chicken gizzard) that we would love to use more, and with the Joey Pouches they would probably thrive even with average tech care, but the mites are a limiting factor, even where all other factors are in their favor.

There is a new miticide, Kontos, that is systemic in action and promises to help with this issue, but there are some tropicals that it cannot be used on due to phytotoxicity issues. I’m sure there will be more products coming down the pipeline to compete with this newcomer that will address these limitations, so there’s hope for the future that we’ll be able to use more of these varieties in our designs.

Clem

Clem is right about many of the more exotic plants requiring extra maintenance. Then these get replaced with the mundane plants. One of the industries problems is that we spec these speacial plants and then service them as if they were Janet Craigs and Mass Canes. From a Canadian point of view for all intents and purposes chemical insect control is impossible because of the pesticide bans. Where this industry goes with these "green" constraints, change in building styles and public tastes is anyones guess. Until there is a true certification program with real teeth much like electricians, plumbers and carpenters then we will always have this problem. Until the general public values our industry as a true trade and not something that my mother does part time out of the home it will not change.

It really doesn’t matter what "the general public" thinks of our level of professionalism, unless you’re trying to sell mid-level residential, and who is doing that? The people we need to educate continuously are the office managers, partners, property managers, facilities managers and purchasing managers...the decision-makers who buy or don’t buy our services.

Clem

Clem what are office managers, partners, property managers, facilities managers and purchasing managers...the decision-makers who buy or don’t buy our services? They are the general public. They live next door to you. They shop at the same stores, buy the same stuff from the same places you do and form the same opinions. They are not elite but they are your target. So it does matter what the "general public" thinks. Because the office managers, partners, property managers, facilities managers and purchasing managers buy our services to please the general public.

I think they would be a little insulted to be lumped in with the masses in that way...after all, they specialize in appealing to the needs and wants of a pretty narrow demographic within the general population: principals and upper management of companies and professional firms who employ them to provide facilities that meet their specs and expectations. That’s a different clientele than the WalMart crowd.

True, the ultimate enjoyment of the products and services we provide accrues to a large segment of the general public (visitors, clients, etc.), but the purchasing decisions are only indirectly influenced by them.

Clem

Jerry, Steve, Robbin, Clem, Dan and all,
This is all very exciting. All along, I have been an advocate for education for interiorscapers and our clients, no matter what field they come from. Also, for years, when I enter a building and the interiorscape looks wonderful, I find out who is doing it and I call them and compliment them on it. If it is looking bad, its up for grabs. When people see good interiorscape, they want it, when its bad, they say, "that is why we don’t have plants." So, getting a compliment from a industry peer or maybe competition, is also a reason to continue to do good work.

I can’t wait to hear what you all come up with. Good stuff all of you.

P.S. Dan, I don’t know if your saw my post,priviously, but I have to disagree with you about the award design winners of today look like 1975. I think there are some awesome designers out there doing wonderfully progressive work. I DO think we should get paid for our designs and hopefully we can agree on how to accomplish that.
Sooner, or Later,
Carol

Carol,

Thanks for chiming in and reminding me that I also meant to disagree with Dan about his blanket criticism of contemporary interiorscape design in 2009! Sorry, Dan, nothing personal, but I keep a stash of old Interiorscape and Interior Landscape Industry magazines for reference, and if you look at the designs pictured just ten or twelve years ago, you’d be pretty surprised at how far we’ve come since then as an industry.

I recall doing some atrium and office renovation projects for a few different companies of varying sizes and types in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, and the stuff that passed for "interiorscape design" before then could be pretty brutal! Indoor jungles with live birds in them, cockroach-infested planting beds in converted indoor pools/ponds, overgrown imitation rainforests with the same clumps of the same few cultivars everywhere you looked. More was less back then, in many respects. Today’s somewhat minimalist look is actually refreshing by comparison! Clean, elegant, making a statement with style instead of mass and quantity...the "good old days" were good in some ways (bigger budgets, less competition, clients who were wide-eyed and compliant in the face of those few rare birds, the interiorscapers of yore). But there was no sense of style in many of these installations, just an indiscriminate use of lots of greenery to fill up space. Not all old-time interiorscapes were guilty of this cardinal design sin, but many were cookie-cutter versions of a bar mitzvah decorator’s idea of the tropics.

We have learned to adapt our designs to fit the spaces we landscape, just as an exterior landscape designer has to make intelligent judgments as to what’s appropriate for each outdoor space that’s designed and planted. Consideration for the maintenance phase is much more prevalent than it once was...ever try to hack your way through some of that ’70’s underbrush without a machete after five or ten years of overgrowth?

So here we are at the takeoff point for a new generation of interiorscape business. We are constrained by fiscal considerations moreso than ever before. We need to be leaner while still entertaining clients and their vistors and staff with our concepts for beautiful indoor spaces. We also need to walk the walk after we’ve talked the talk: the maintenance phase must be given equal priority with the design and installation phases, because recurring income is what grows and sustains our businesses.

At Jerry Shipe’s suggestion, I’m going to shift gears here and direct you all to a new thread, one in which we will try to start enumerating our specific ideas and visions for the rebirth of our industry. We’ll all have to agree to keep it pretty simple and not go off on tangents with our comments. Just give us the meat and potatoes of your ideas for "re-inventing" or revitalizing the interiorscape business. No arguments, no negativism, just inspired, fresh ideas...ideas for design, for sales, for maintenance, for marketing, for client care, whatever. Ideas we can openly share with our compadres in this wonderful little industry...so join me in the new thread, and we’ll try to maintain it as a running inventory of inspiration and inventiveness with an eye toward a real-time, in-the-flesh version of this chat at Calscape this fall.

Clem

"Ok Steve, I have volunteered you. Are you willing to take this on?"

Jerry, yes I am.

Steve

Steve, Thats great! I know that you have what it takes to bring this to reality with the help of alot of good people in this industry.This can and must happen to help bring a sense of purpose to the professionalism aspect of who we are and what we represent.Thanks for being a "doer"

Clem,well said as always.Thanks for your help on the list and your support of this effort.

Wow, quite a bit of chatter on here, I couldnt even read everthing but did skimming of what I didnt read. I have some thoughts on PIA, since its in my area and thats the organization I belong to. I deffenitly want to see it become more proffesional but at the same time, I do not have time to give, I have a business to run and a family to spend time with. When I look at ASID, they are well put together and because they are, they get respect and people look for a designer that is a member. I would like to see PIA become more like ASID and the members a step above the rest. I’m not sure how they did it but we should look into it. what do you guys think? I’m sure we could charge for proposals when you are a PIA board certified plantscaper and member!
Jim

Jim,you are exactly right. We need to have a model like ASID that works for everyone’s benefit.Its quite possible that PIA can begin to evolve and adopt a model that will be a practical blueprint for things to come.I hope that you will attend Calscape and come to the Forum discussion.We need ideas but we need people to participate even more no matter what level.

Go to this site and look at the interior landscape winners for the last 3 years. Welcome to the 70’s and 80’s

http://www.landscapeontario.com/main.php?m=118

You don’t know how many (how few?) firms entered the competition, so it’s unfair to paint everyone with the same brush...plus, plant-in-pot is often the best solution for the situation. Would that we all had access to in-floor planter beds, complex configurations of modular planter units, or other "zebra" situations to work with on every proposal...and the plant palette, while it has expanded and contracted in various ways over the decades, is not going to change very much over time, because the limitations of "new" plant introductions will be dependent on the payback to the plant breeders working out there. How much different will your "new" cultivar have to be to garner significant attention in the trade and in the marketplace?

"There is nothing new under the sun" is a truism that has a lot of factual basis. We work with some basic forms and shapes, from which we choose cultivars and individual specimens as they are available and suited to the environments in which they will be sited. Photos don’t always tell that tale.

Clem

Now you are hitting the nail on the head Clem. I will grant that there are not as many entries in Canada as in the US but it does go to show the state of the industry here. You are right that the "plant palette" doesn’t change much over the years. The exterior industry is always abuzz with new varieties and forms that the large exterior growers publicize much more aggressively! Just look at Wave Petunias, Calibrachoa, Euphorbia Diamond Frost, and Black Lace Sambucus. Most of these plants wern’t around 15 years ago with some of these only being around in the last 3 or 4 years. Yet almost all are specified by designers of exterior landscapes to the exclusion of the old standbys.

Basically a pot is a pot and its basic form doesn’t really change. When was the last time you really saw a revolutionary new finish or material?

I have to say that most in floor planter beds end up looking very much the same as any other built in planting.

Although photos don’t always tell the tale it is what the majority of clients base their buying decision on. Couple the above with the many years of subpar service by this industry and the fact that most interior landscapes look their best at about 4 weeks after installation, with 80% of them going downhill after that.

There will always be a place for a GOOD interiorscaper but as an industry we must work very hard to overcome the odds that are against the old traditional way of doing business and move into other complimentary profit centres. The industry must pull together to develop new "must have" product. This takes a lot of commitment and money. Unfortunately our industry is very small and that lack of money, market and commitment is taking its toll.

Dan,
Your comment concerning the quality of the plantings after an initial 4 weeks of foliar bliss is interesting to me.
It can run parallel with Jerry Shipe’s Pledge of Professionalism. As you said, there will always be a place
(a need) for GOOD interiorscapers, but let’s face it, plants are difficult to maintain over a period of time. Often times a job is spec’d, the installation is beautiful, but after a few short months the designs deteriorate and the foliage thins. Grow pots begin to show, canes get leggy, spaths are trimmed excessively, Mealy bug makes a home, etc..

It takes a legitimate, realistic budget by those who bid the jobs and those who ultimately write the checks for plant replacements six or eight months down the road to keep the account looking great and profitable.

Many scapers would rather let the quality of the foliage decline and design crumble than replace numerous plants to keep the planter bed looking tremendous. After all, the job was bid so lean, there will be no profit if you replace those tired looking plants. Here comes the ugly cycle and the ultimate negativity our customers may begin to feel. They (the customers) pay their bills for professional plant care, but the contracted vendor DOES NOT HONOR THEIR FOLIAGE GUARANTEE!! "Who needs a stinking plant service?!?! We can water the plants ourselves and save the money!" says the client who used to pay their bills right on time... Nobody wins and our industry gets another blemish. Ouch..

Here’s where Jerry’s thought of a Pledge of Professionalism comes into play.. See where I’m going with this?? The Good Guys better stick together and get on the same page as we try to weather this economic storm and survive the dead weight of sub-par scapers who are pulling down the legitimacy of this industry.
Now I feel better, thanks for reading..
David

Amen David!!!

You hit that one directly on the head!

David, thanks for "getting it" when the Pledge is brought up.But there is also another factor here when it comes to signing a contract with a thirty day out clause supposedly designed to protect the client.Usually these are in third party management contracts.In the beginning we had actual one two three year contracts that we provided and the client signed.Now a contract is no more than a price guarantee for third party to their advantage as they do not have to honor any term longer than thirty days.What they don’t understand is that an interiorscaper is unlikely to do things like we did when we actually had contracts.I used to go into a job a freely replace,redesign and upgrade jobs knowing I could #1 use my skills to make a job great instead of okay #2 I knew I could recoup my investment in the job over the term of the contract.Under todays contracts the uneducated customers we have do not understand this and it has lead to jobs that lack creativity and aggressive design and replacent work. Why should we when the first time a new manager or new owner comes in they cut or budget or even cancel our contract bringing in another company to ride the good work we have done down to mediocrity again while enjoying the profit they make from our good work.I see a real need to try to educate our customers to understand they will never get the very best and most creative work when it comes out of our pocket and we have no way to make up for our investment in the job when a thirty day contract is hanging over our head.Not long ago I took over a poor job and put $3000.00 of my money into the job because I knew and trusted the manager. A month later he lost his job and I lost the account to a low bidder and they drove the job back into the ground and it looked like crap again in less than a year. Okay,lesson learned by me.So how do we keep a job top notch when we can’t put all our skills and money into it when we in reality only have a thiry day contract? I think it must come by educating customers as to what we do and how a thirty day contract is not to their benefit.This is something that maybe PIA or another organization can do. Put together a flyer that promotes contracts for the term and maybe has a "non performance " clause in it but at least does not leave the interiorscaper hanging out there for the money he wants to voluntarily put into the job.

Contracts and legalese notwithstanding, each client is unique in many respects, and that will govern what happens to the quality of the installation over time. We have had some low-bid contracts that expected us to bear the burden of things like vandalism, theft, failure to maintain environmental conditions stated in the contract, etc., sometimes under threat of "liquidated damages" if we didn’t play along with the site manager’s "standards".

In other cases, though, it has truly been a longtime partnership with our clients, especially those in which we deal directly with a principal of the firm. We have done things such as renovating a 1970’s-vintage overgrown atrium full of live finches (and their droppings) into a tamer version of same, and then a few years later transformed it into a zen garden complete with raked stone, a turtle island, bamboo and a water garden complete with fish and blooming tropical waterlilies and other plants, then removed the water feature a few years later and updated the look again for him. Never did he expect us to cough up a single free item or labor charge, and he always appreciated the artistic effort that went into each phase of this ongoing work in progress over the years.

Bottom line: relationships and communication rule the roost. Unfortunately, in many instances, the vagaries of the commercial realty industry don’t permit the relationship part to flourish these days, and the communication part then becomes limited to ill-informed complaints and requests for freebies on their part and repeated requests for payment of past-due invoices on our part. Too bad.

Clem

So is there going to be any gettogether at TPIE? Please inform.

423-468-4172 Chattanooga line
423-544-6690 cell
706-971-9396 cell

So is there going to be any get together at TPIE? Please inform.

423-468-4172 Chattanooga line
423-544-6690 cell
706-971-9396 cell

Just picked up on this thread. first off, as a ’scaper, I was usually one of the highest bidders, but my ’closer’rate was over 90%! One, I CHARGED FOR A BID/DESIGN!!! YES, THAT’S RIGHT,as far back as 1979 & got it. In the event I got the job, I deducted a % of the design charge from the price. I always went out of my way to include plant material that was spec’d PROPERLY ACCORDING TO LIGHT CONDITIONS ETC. eg. LONG LASTING, properly priced! and to include plant material that the average ’joe’ would not spec.As a ’scaper/broker, I’m always encouraging growers to introduce new material/or reinvent some varieties. Just a thought...see ya’ at the show. Barry

Barry,

Great thoughts...I myself have tried the design fee angle at times, but found that there was a LOT of resistance in our market (northern NJ and NY metro area). I think there would almost have to be tacit agreement among all of the ’scapers in a market to make that work...otherwise, the "freebie guy" would get more traction and a competitive advantage in that market by giving away his design work to get the jobs.

We’re not L. A.’s or architects or interior designers, so we don’t have the professional tradition of charging for our design work to legitimize it in our line of work. And in this crappy market, I doubt anyone will take the risk of becoming the pioneer (guinea pig?) in that regard. But it sure would make sense to do it that way.

Clem